Silver tsuba quality ?

[Exclus1ve]

Still, I think it's just very poor quality and not following traditional techniques… It would be interesting to see them live.

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/30444/lot/165/kawai-isshu-born-1920-an-inlaid-mixed-metal-large-tsuba-showa-era-1926-1989-mid-20th-century-2/

[Matsunoki]

The Mei is pretty. The rest is horrible but having said that, I couldn’t make it. Not worth that sort of money in my opinion. 
very crude compared to the real deal……

[Hokke]

On 12/16/2025 at 3:51 AM, ROKUJURO said:

Calabrese,

but my impression is these TSUBA are newly made (= 10 years or so) for sale to unsuspecting collectors/buyers. They do not look like MEIJI JIDAI products to me. Unused, no traces of hand-tools, obviously made for "bling" only. Sometimes the decoration is even on the SEPPA-DAI, which is very rare in Japanese TSUBA, and if it's done, it is made flat so as not to interfere with the SEPPA. As I tried to explain, these new ones lack the TSUBA function in my eyes.

I cannot say where they are made, but I don't think they are made in Japan.

Im not disagreeing with you Jean, I have little doubt these were produced recently for tourists and those unfamiliar with traditional techniques. My only point was that Japan is not immune from producing items for a buck, or yen as it were. There is no rule I am aware of in Japan, which states any tsuba produced within the state must be traditional and functional.  Often times we romanticize people and cultures for one thing or another, but in this day and age, its money and wealth that drive most people, even in a country like Japan, so rich in history.

Edited December 17, 2025 by Hokke

[Matsunoki]

1 minute ago, Hokke said:

but in this day and age, its money and wealth that drive most people, even in a country like Japan, so rich in history.

So true.

I watch a lot of Japanese TV (NHK) especially if any sort of history or craft is involved and it is clear that many of the old ways are dying driven by cheaper alternatives or simply a lack of young interest in continuing. Of course there are exceptions here and there but the overall impression is that money talks first….and tastes are changing. 
Many of the finest restorers of many of the Japanese Arts are actually non Japanese and not living in Japan. Of course again there are exceptions. 
Maybe I (we?) are being harsh on these later tsuba….at least someone is trying but in the absence of a skilled tutor I guess it’s pretty difficult. 

[ROKUJURO]

1 hour ago, Hokke said:

I.....Often times we romanticize people and cultures for one thing or another, but in this day and age, its money and wealth that drive most people, even in a country like Japan, so rich in history.

That may well be.
My thoughts are that newbies might take these late reproductions for the real thing, and I would not like that.  

[MauroP]

In my opinion, the tsuba we are discussing is a “legitimate” modern tsuba, produced in the late 1950s to early 1960s. Was it made according to tradition? That depends on how strict one’s criteria for “tradition” are. Ford Hallam certainly produced traditional works of art, but he used fine saw blades for sukashi, whereas in the Edo period only chisels and files were available...

 

[Exclus1ve]

4 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Maybe I (we?) are being harsh on these later tsuba….at least someone is trying but in the absence of a skilled tutor I guess it’s pretty difficult. 

It really is. After reading this article, I became curious about the approximate cost of a piece of tosogu during the Edo period.
https://nihonto.com/nakai-koshirae/ Must-see

 

We can see that the prices of high-quality works were truly impressive. These prices were justified not only by demand and popularity at the time, but also by the amount of work involved. How much would you estimate a piece that took about three to six months to complete? Today, such a price would not be much lower. For example, prices for top-end tsuba by Ford Hallam start at around $5,000. Obviously, producing such work requires a great deal of time and skill, making it inaccessible to many people.
Looking at examples related to this topic, it seems likely that someone simply wanted to quickly create something similar and sell it to an inexperienced collector, which, judging by the auction results, was successful.
However, I still think it could have been made in Japan, but with a different goal - purely for profit. During the Edo period, there were also many rather “simple” or even crude works by novice and inexperienced artists. The difference is that in those days the primary purpose was practical use, whereas today the context is completely different.

 

[Robert S]

7 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

Maybe I (we?) are being harsh on these later tsuba….at least someone is trying but in the absence of a skilled tutor I guess it’s pretty difficult. 

I'm really curious about exactly how difficult these things are to make, using today's tools... so I'm tooling up in the new year to have a bash.  Should be interesting :-)

 

[ROKUJURO]

In the TSUBA forging workshop I held for NMB members this summer, there was an opportunity to make a simple irom TSUBA (old iron dating from about 1880) with traditional tools and techniques. It proved to be a real challenge for the beginners in the forge, but nonetheless the results were very good.

These were very basic TSUBA of the TÔSHÔ style, and comparing high-end work from renowned Japanese masters is a completely different galaxy, their work demanding the highest respect. 

[Robert S]

Jean: 

 

I so wish I could have attended your workshop.  To start with, I'm not going to focus on the forging part.  I'm going to focus on the shaping and finishing of stock low carbon steels, copper, etc.  I'm sure the results won't even be in the same universe as the masters, but learning by doing is my motto :-)

 

Robert

[Jack Zacao]

the signature on the box suggest the following expert : if you google his name , you will find him authenticating a lot of swords by signing the description on saya etc. the tsuba seems modern in 1960s and the guy was still alive and working. of course the quality of metal work in Japan declined significantly past 1930

佐藤貫一／寒山（さとうかんいち／かんざん）

1907年（明治40年）～1978年（昭和53年）

刀剣学者。公益財団法人 日本美術刀剣保存協会常務理事長。刀剣博物館副館長。日本刀鑑定、特に新刀研究の権威と言われた。

 

 

[MauroP]

3 hours ago, Jack Zacao said:

the signature on the box suggest the following expert : if you google his name , you will find him authenticating a lot of swords by signing the description on saya etc

Jack, the "guy" you are tolking about is Satō Kanzan, one of the most respected experts on the Japanese sword. The point here is that I don't think the hakogaki was genuinely written by Satō Kanzan. Nonetheless nothing written in the hakogaki is false (but the signature, of course).

Edited December 18, 2025 by MauroP