Traditional Carrying Question of Number of Nihonto.

[Barrett Hiebert]

Forumites,

 

I am just wondering...

 

Would a samurai ever at all carry a katana and wakizashi in whatever zashi position , (heijo, kannuki, otoshi) , on their left hip in their respective obi, and also with a tachi in seoi-dachi on the back and finally a tanto in metezashi or ebirazashi on their right hip, side ?

 

I just have seen a katana (tachi) and a wakizashi on the left hip and a tachi on the back in the picture provided.

 

It wouldn't be too much a stretch to think they'd additionally have a tanto in their right side respectively in whatever position ?

 

Thanks. Hopefully they did.

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett Hiebert

[Robert S]

I think that's what you'd call seriously tooled up :-).

[Barrett Hiebert]

Robert S. ,

 

Yes, I agee.

 

I also do think a tanto on the right side in metezashi or ebirazashi wouldn't be over tooling but just right.

 

 

Just as long as no saya from each blade interfered with one another when moving.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett 

[Barrett Hiebert]

Furthermore...

 

I've attached a picture for position of the tanto on the right hip in metezashi.

 

Per its position in the front right, it definitely wouldn't interfere with the other three blades even if the right hip mounted tachi was worn edge up as a katana.

 

So I think such absolute tooling would be good in theory.

 

Of course the majority of the time certainly the tachi or katana on the back was just for storing when moving.

 

Though I have seen videos of practioners who have practiced proficiently enough being able to draw the back sword easily enough and return to the back saya.

 

So certainly interesting.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett Hiebert

[Bugyotsuji]

Overall weight would have to be a consideration, unless the warrior wished to show off.

 

During the attacks on Nagashino Castle before the great battle at Shitaragahara, warriors scaled the rocky face from the river below; for that they wore their Nodachi on their backs. Quite possible that they also carried a metezashi.

[Barrett Hiebert]

Piers D. , 

 

I certainly agree with you.

 

Speculative and situationally dependant obviously.

 

Though for art purposes from the front I think I could get away with it.

 

Obviously only the handle portion of the back mounted sword would be showing above the body and the ending of the saya would be showing below.

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett Hiebert

Edited December 4 by Barrett Hiebert

[Jussi Ekholm]

About the back carry of tachi and ōdachi, I would think it would be very rare for the person carrying the sword in back actually draw them from back, as in case of ōdachi the sword would have been very large.

 

I talked about this with Daihōden museum staff this summer, as she was happy how interested I was about their ōdachi she came to talk to me. We talked lot about ōdachi in general and then about their museum ōdachi. I was under the impression that Mori Ranmaru whose name is in the description of the particular sword was the one using it. However she explained to me that Mori Ranmaru was actually sword carrier of Oda Nobunaga, and he would have this large ōdachi strapped in his back and if the situation came where Nobunaga would call, he would take a bow and allow Nobunaga to draw this ōdachi from his back and go into the fight.

 

Here is a picture of that sword. Usually I don't take any pictures of swords but this time she insisted I took pictures of it, and was standing next to me looking if I will take them.  It was great to see how she was proud about items in their museum and knew so much about them.

 

 

There are some other ōdachi that have historical ties to famous warrior or warlord so I would think similarily they would have had someone carrying the large sword for them.

[Scogg]

 

You can probably imagine how difficult it would be to draw a sword straight off your back over your head/shoulder. Try the motion now: reach behind your head as if grasping a tsuka, then raise your arm as though you’re pulling a blade free. You’ll notice your arm doesn’t travel very far. With anything longer than a short blade, a significant portion of the sword would still be stuck in the saya on your back.

 

The longer the sword, the longer your arms would need to be to clear the entire blade from the scabbard.

 

Here's an example. You can see that even video game animators struggle with the physics of how this might work:
(Note: this is just a silly video game, and is simply demonstrating how this would look and how challenging/awkward the action would be. Sorry about the song, I recommend muting it... not my video .)

 

 

[Barrett Hiebert]

Jussi,

 

I agree entirely with you.

 

Such a beautiful odachi. I'm glad you took pictures. I of course, as you know, have a love of odachi/nodachi as well.

 

Though, as I've become more older, wiser and more familiar with what would be better suited to my shorter height, arm length, etc. I do tend to prefer blades that are congruent to such.

 

My Nambokucho O-kissaki Nagamaki Naoshi or Nagamaki Naoshi Zukuri Katana with a nagasa length of 70.3 cms is average nagasa length and was the only blade I was thinking relatively to put on my back theoretically for an art piece.

 

Of course I'm just less than 5 foot 6 inches so short and average height at the top end like the average Japanese throughout history.

 

Of course I was just going to have it moved on to the back for an art piece, only as I had to jump on a Sekishu Dewa Sadatsuna Wakizashi shown here from Aoi Art that I am currently financing. As I absolutely fell in love with it. I'm so excited to have my first wakizashi. It didn't sell at auction so luckily it was available for financing/purchase. : D

 

Such a blade is acting out of fashion for the time period hence why I love it. A total sleeper build.

 

I especially love its flamboyant hamon with almost straight blade and multiple hada.

 

https://sword-auction.com/en/product/29231/as25564-wakizashi-mumei-sekishu-dewa-sadatsuna-nbthk-hozon-token/#:~:text=AS25564 Wakizashi: Mumei (Sekishu Dewa Sadatsuna) (NBTHK Hozon Token) – 日本刀販売の葵美術

 

And while my 2nd katana, a Oei - Bumei Kaga Fujishima Sunzumari Katana was going to take the larger O-kissaki Katanas place on the obi, the Sekishu Dewa Sadatsuna Wakizashi was going to be in its usual place as the companion sword. See the Sunzumari blade below for reference.

 

https://www.nihontocraft.com/Kaga_Fujishima_Koto_Katana.htm

 

Of course also this wonderful Late Kamakura Ryo Hisanobu tanto I'm financing coincidingly from Lex will be in metezashi position on the left side.

 

https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/51709-kamakura-fumei-nbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-tanto-attributed-to-ryo-hisanobu-with-koshirae/#comment-564294

 

Seeing as how my question was mainly for an art piece using my swords in it, I think it would be acceptable, though of course I'm sure drawing from the back wasn't done commonly as such would of been worn by a companion and drawn as you have described.

 

Sam,

 

Yes, I also agree with you knowing how bio-mechanics work in relation to limb length and weapon length, obviously.

 

Though, in the last part of the video you've shown, it shows Atsu, the main protagonist character from Ghost of Yotei , ( an excellent game as is Assassins Creed : Shadows) , with her dominant sword hand throwing the odachi up by the hilt and then catching the bare blade at its lowest most exposed point and then withdrawing it completely from the back mounted saya.

 

Of course again this can be done if you threw up the blade high enough out of the scabbard and then proceeded to grab the bare blade at its lowest exposed point to draw it completely then from the saya.

 

Obviously this would take much skill and practice as would resheathing, but it can be done easier with a shorter blade without the need to grab the bare blade after thrusting up the hilt as high as possible. See video below.

 

 

I have also seen it done as Skallagrim shows and he breaks it down in greater detail and analysis. Not quite as smooth as in the game by Atsu in Ghost of Yotei though obviously as for reasons stated, shown in the video.

 

 

Furthermore an odachi can be withdrawn from the obi with the same technique as on the back seen here... fast forward to roughly 7 minutes time stamp to see what I'm talking about.

 

https://youtu.be/hFVL0RzmbbI?si=5Q2yD-1gZIsL3QTZ

 

Though of course if you had the wealth for an odachi/nodachi and the skill to use it you'd most likely, if not always, just have a companion who carries the blade that you would draw from.

 

 

Just all food for thought.

 

Thanks for your reply Sam.

 

Best regards,

 

Barrett Hiebert

Edited December 6 by Barrett Hiebert