Signed Rai Kunimitsu tachi. Price?

[Lewis B]

Anyone notice what this signed Rai Kunimitsu was sold for? Sale was rapid, less than 24h.

 

https://eirakudo.shop/558845

[nulldevice]

Good looking sword. If you right-click the image and "open in new tab" it pulls up a much more detailed image. Sometimes Eirakudo's site loads blurry images for me at first. 

[Rivkin]

One thing I would note is she is a fantastic photographer. If the blade does not show something in her pictures - it means it does not have it. at all. If you don't see hada, its gone.

[PNSSHOGUN]

It was 8 million yen IIRC

[Brano]

I also think it's important to tell those who are not experienced with photography - what we see in the photos of Eirakudo is significantly enhanced

This means that in reality the utsuri will be much softer, the jigane the same (thank God), the reflection of the hamon ...

 

I agree that their photographic ability is excellent especially when composing at an angle with the reflection of the hamon

However, one must always be careful when judging a blade from a photo
There is always the possibility of manipulation from the side of the togishi, then the photographer and the use of Photoshop to mask anything unwanted, highlight anything subdued ...

[Gakusee]

Bear in mind the contrast is maxed out, shadows and definition have been tweaked 

[Rivkin]

Her from above shots are realistic, I don't exactly understand how she does the angled ones, which do tend to be aggressive.

This being said, I had a blade which had in her photo prominent utsuri and lots of ashi. I could barely see the ashi and could not see the utsuri. Neither could NTHK, in fact they did not believe much in ashi either and treated it as a simple suguha-notare and gave it Kaga appraisal. However, NBTHK commented - yes, utsuri is clearly seen, ashi is abundant.

 

I like her accented at-an-angle photos because it shows everything the blade has. Its not simply Photoshop, there is a photography light angle (probably multi-shot) management here which accents utsuri and nioi activities, which are normally an exceptional pain to deal with.

[Brano]

7 hours ago, Rivkin said:

However, NBTHK commented - yes, utsuri is clearly seen, ashi is abundant.

 

Does this mean that the blade is at least Juyo, or was it part of Kantei?
Can you tell me more about this blade? Or maybe post some pictures?

[Rivkin]

33 minutes ago, Brano said:

Does this mean that the blade is at least Juyo, or was it part of Kantei?
Can you tell me more about this blade? Or maybe post some pictures?

I will try to post it tomorrow. Since I sold it and don't have a clear position of the new owner how comfortable is he discussing the attribution, I'll post only partial shots and general descriptions, but its one of those cases which feels very educational and I still don't understand the whole picture. 

Her angled photo was nothing like the blade in hand, yet it captured things that only two of those who studied the blade (NBTHK and one kantei person) fully identified, everyone else observed only a portion of those. To make things more complicated kantei person rendered very different attribution compared to NBTHK, though it sort of matched mine.

I wish I had the knowledge to fully understand this complicated case.

[Brano]

2 hours ago, Rivkin said:

I will try to post it tomorrow. Since I sold it and don't have a clear position of the new owner how comfortable is he discussing the attribution, I'll post only partial shots and general descriptions, but its one of those cases which feels very educational and I still don't understand the whole picture. 

Her angled photo was nothing like the blade in hand, yet it captured things that only two of those who studied the blade (NBTHK and one kantei person) fully identified, everyone else observed only a portion of those. To make things more complicated kantei person rendered very different attribution compared to NBTHK, though it sort of matched mine.

I wish I had the knowledge to fully understand this complicated case.

No worries Kirill
I was just wondering
We both know of two blades that have passed from this seller and their photos are a bit "highlighted" compared to reality

 

[Gakusee]

I have owned (not anymore) a blade from them. The blade did not disappoint me and had everything the photo showed. Well, difficult to disappoint as it was a zaimei Ichimonji blade with sublime jigane and active hamon. 
 

I have also considered buying others from there but one needs to examine closely the ones with thin hamon or hamon close to the hassaki. Since the contrast is indeed so powerfully magnified, sometimes the habuchi appears stronger than in real life, where you can be disappointed. So in real life everything is softer and more subdued than their vivid, high-contrast photos. 

[Rivkin]

Left to right - her picture, how it looks in real life, how it looks after two days of dancing around with light sources and trying to understand why I can't capture the leftmost image. And hand pushing contrast to maximum.

 

NTHK [NPO?] circa 2023: Kaga late Muromachi, no noticable activity, suguha, itame.

NBTHK: utsuri, ashi, attributed to Enju 

Myself: why Enju, hamon is pure nioi with a little bit of ko nie, if you believe leftmost image (I believe its there, just does not show very well), or even my rightmost one (two days of pain), it even borders on ko choji in places. Aoe.

Kantei guy after 10 minutes: Obviously its Aoe. Yes, ashi, complex utsuri.

Did NBTHK consider ko nie activity like the one seen in third photo as an indication its Enju? I don't know. I had an opportunity to ask couple of questions through an intermediary but that's it.

 

[Brano]

9 hours ago, Rivkin said:

Left to right - her picture, how it looks in real life, how it looks after two days of dancing around with light sources and trying to understand why I can't capture the leftmost image. And hand pushing contrast to maximum.

 

NTHK [NPO?] circa 2023: Kaga late Muromachi, no noticable activity, suguha, itame.

NBTHK: utsuri, ashi, attributed to Enju 

Myself: why Enju, hamon is pure nioi with a little bit of ko nie, if you believe leftmost image (I believe its there, just does not show very well), or even my rightmost one (two days of pain), it even borders on ko choji in places. Aoe.

Kantei guy after 10 minutes: Obviously its Aoe. Yes, ashi, complex utsuri.

Did NBTHK consider ko nie activity like the one seen in third photo as an indication its Enju? I don't know. I had an opportunity to ask couple of questions through an intermediary but that's it.

 

Thanks Kirill for sharing the photos
I admit that I am not able to see any ko-nie in your third photo either. However, there are obvious clusters that form nezumi-ashi and saka-ashi
The local nijuba and as if shirake utsuri in the Eirakudo photo are consistent with the Enju call. However, not with the Enju from the late Muromachi period that NTHK defines.

I would not expect Enju for this period to have such activity inside the hamon
Also, the AOE call ( Sue-Aoe) would be fine for a nioi oriented hamon with nezumi-ashi/saka-ashi and shirake utsuri (I assume the utsuri is very subdued in the hand) but it also contradicts the Late Muromachi
Does the Sugata blade support the NTHK estimate?

[Lewis B]

And we're comparing the same section of the blade in all 3 images? The top area of the hamon in AOI's image is quite different to the lower portion (nijuba?). 

[Gakusee]

On 9/14/2025 at 10:50 AM, Lewis B said:

And we're comparing the same section of the blade in all 3 images? The top area of the hamon in AOI's image is quite different to the lower portion (nijuba?). 

This is not Aoi (which has its own distinct photo graphic style). 
This is Eirakudo and it is pretty unique in maximising the contrast in its photos and working with shadows etc 

[Rivkin]

I wanted to answer with more pictures, so I got lazy. Yes, these are more or less identical portions. Sugata is not distinctive to period. Middle one is very much how the blade looks under most lights - and NTHK attributed it to late Muromachi Kaga, which is understandable.

Enju attribution was late Kamakura, and Aoe guess would be also late Kamakura. I feel sue-Aoe and sue-Enju both look frankly Yamato or Yamato-Mino, with coarser jigane, strong nie activity, togari-gunomi, sunagashi etc. What botheres me in Enju is that the last photo on the rightmost side has couple of strings of ko nie and that's about all I could find which would point me towards Mihara or Enju.

I don't think there is nijuba, to me it looked more like ko choji hamon in nioi which gets weaker in one area, which is almost impossible to see with a naked eye.

 

Very complex blade, very complex photography.

[Gakusee]

28 minutes ago, Rivkin said:

I wanted to answer with more pictures, so I got lazy. Yes, these are more or less identical portions. Sugata is not distinctive to period. Middle one is very much how the blade looks under most lights - and NTHK attributed it to late Muromachi Kaga, which is understandable.

Enju attribution was late Kamakura, and Aoe guess would be also late Kamakura. I feel sue-Aoe and sue-Enju both look frankly Yamato or Yamato-Mino, with coarser jigane, strong nie activity, togari-gunomi, sunagashi etc. What botheres me in Enju is that the last photo on the rightmost side has couple of strings of ko nie and that's about all I could find which would point me towards Mihara or Enju.

I don't think there is nijuba, to me it looked more like ko choji hamon in nioi which gets weaker in one area, which is almost impossible to see with a naked eye.

 

Very complex blade, very complex photography.

Interesting…

However, sueAoe does not have rough jigane, utsuri is not really shirake and it is not nie rendered. I do get that sometimes the boundary is blurred between konie and nioi but we do not really see Aoe in nie and also there should be clear, distinct and nice (saka) ashi. Even in Eirakudo’s photo, they do not look like typical Aoe ashi.  
 

How does it feel in hand (lighter or chunkier) and is sugata more graceful (Enju) or heavier set with wider mihaba (probably more sue Aoe)?

[Rivkin]

16 hours ago, Gakusee said:

Interesting…

However, sueAoe does not have rough jigane, utsuri is not really shirake and it is not nie rendered. I do get that sometimes the boundary is blurred between konie and nioi but we do not really see Aoe in nie and also there should be clear, distinct and nice (saka) ashi. Even in Eirakudo’s photo, they do not look like typical Aoe ashi.  

I don't think sue Aoe was considered;

Regarding the rest I think we are running into competitive nomenclature: when sue Aoe begins, and I am sort at fault for saying "sue Aoe" when I should have used "Muromachi Aoe". 

Yes, it has rougher jigane compared to Nanbokucho, and can or even expected to have noticably harsher nie activity. (see attached). Some look like Mihara or even Tegai with nijuba, others go all the the way to Yamato Shikkake-Mino with togari etc.

Though they are rare, they are also often signed pieces, so no question on attribution.

Even with blades from the very end of Nanbokucho (1380s) you have people who continue the tradition, and there are blades reflecting an effort to copy different styles with at times random effect, you see bizarre pieces, but still high quality.

Regarding distinctive saka ashi... I can put 10 or 20 images from different blades and while there is this "Aoe" look, whether its saka or not it is not always clear. In real life, depends on polish, lighting, can be even worse. At TJ level there are many pieces which are "classic" Aoe with everything in the book present... When its TH, it all gets murky and Aoe is one school which can be difficult to kantei - jigane varies a LOT, hamon also, and Muromachi pieces you are essentially looking for one or two not too obvious features which confirm its Aoe.

 

Aoe is unfortunately a school which can't be studied by books or even NBTHK newsletter. There is too much variation, and its often difficult to see what you need to see. You speak to people appraising sue Aoe and they say - here is nezumi ashi, saka ashi, but when you look at it - its very subtle, in one place, you show it to another person and he will not see it and will give different appraisal.

[Brano]

18 hours ago, Rivkin said:

I don't think sue Aoe was considered;

Regarding the rest I think we are running into competitive nomenclature: when sue Aoe begins, and I am sort at fault for saying "sue Aoe" when I should have used "Muromachi Aoe". 

Yes, it has rougher jigane compared to Nanbokucho, and can or even expected to have noticably harsher nie activity. (see attached). Some look like Mihara or even Tegai with nijuba, others go all the the way to Yamato Shikkake-Mino with togari etc.

Though they are rare, they are also often signed pieces, so no question on attribution.

Even with blades from the very end of Nanbokucho (1380s) you have people who continue the tradition, and there are blades reflecting an effort to copy different styles with at times random effect, you see bizarre pieces, but still high quality.

Regarding distinctive saka ashi... I can put 10 or 20 images from different blades and while there is this "Aoe" look, whether its saka or not it is not always clear. In real life, depends on polish, lighting, can be even worse. At TJ level there are many pieces which are "classic" Aoe with everything in the book present... When its TH, it all gets murky and Aoe is one school which can be difficult to kantei - jigane varies a LOT, hamon also, and Muromachi pieces you are essentially looking for one or two not too obvious features which confirm its Aoe.

 

Aoe is unfortunately a school which can't be studied by books or even NBTHK newsletter. There is too much variation, and its often difficult to see what you need to see. You speak to people appraising sue Aoe and they say - here is nezumi ashi, saka ashi, but when you look at it - its very subtle, in one place, you show it to another person and he will not see it and will give different appraisal.

Yes - the Sue-Aoe terminology was probably confusing
Because Sue-Aoe generally begins around the mid-14th century
I generally thought the decline of the Aoe school was at the end of the Nanbokucho or the beginning of the Muromachi
Also, Jussi's extensive database does not contain AOE blades younger than early Muromachi
The blades you are talking about are papered for Aoe and a period younger than the beginning of the Muromachi??

[Gakusee]

So Sue Aoe (from end Nanbokucho / early Muromachi) is described below in Nihonto Koza. 
See attached. 
I shall admit that they do mention shiraki utsuri as possible, so I was wrong 😑 on that point. But the jigane (while not as clear as the developed / mid Aoe ”saeru” that succeeds the slightly more rustic koAoe with its possible sumihada and less refinement) is not rough. Could you be commenting on state of preservation whereby the core hada is showing through? Note the Sato sensei clearly states sumihada is scarce. 
And also note that there is a specific clarification on nioi only. 

 

Overall, I do concur that it is a big  sub-school with some varied workmanship. Some flamboyant and vivid and some more subdued and subtle. 
 

[Rivkin]

I use sue Aoe as synonym of post-1380 work. The terminology does not appear in papers so its ill defined, some people do include 1350-1370s, but I find it strange because period's work while distinctive with very periodic ko choji in nioi, tight bright itame, dan utsuri, but you do find similar work in Kamakura period. It is more or less always was one of Aoe archetypes. But there is much less in common with Muromachi production and if sue Aoe covers mid Nambokucho and all later work, than all these book statements are challenging to accept since they refer to two very different styles.

Muromachi Aoe style persisted in one form or another for quite sometime, one can even say until Mizuta, though the quantity drops tremendously in 1380s and even further around 1410-1420. They are not making it to Juyo so not too visible, rare and there is no published study. They are never pure nioi [!], and some are clearly nie based. They can at times approach Mizuta as Mino-Soshu interpretation, and on the other end of the spectrum you find sort of Tegai with ko choji somewhere mixed in, and besides a lot of masame you also do have tight itame, even though it does not have much ji nie. Utsuri - sometimes there is none, sometimes there is midare utsuri, sometimes its strong and somewhat unsightly bo utsuri. Dan utsuri per se is very uncommon. sumigame in its ealier form is non-existent. Its just not the same type of work as classic 1360 Juyo. 

 

Here is Muromachi Aoe from Aoi Art. It is unusual, but on the other hand - that's what they started to experiment with.

 

P.S. the one from eirakudo could not be Aoe from 1350-1370. utsuri is wrong - period Aoe has a fold in a very specific place which produces nie, location is below the one in eirakudo. at TH level the location is prone to. eirakudo ashi are too non-uniform in height, there is notare periodicity to their heights rather than pure suguha, etc. etc. etc. 

 

[Lewis B]

The Shintogo DNA is very clear in this tanto attributed to Yukimitsu. Beautiful forging consistency throughout the jiba. Good example showing how the detail in the nioiguchi and hada are emphasized in these photos.

 

https://eirakudo.shop/172803

[Sebuh]

6 hours ago, Lewis B said:

The Shintogo DNA is very clear in this tanto attributed to Yukimitsu. Beautiful forging consitency throughout the jiba. Good example showing how the detail in the nioiguchi and hada are emphasized in these photos.

 

https://eirakudo.shop/172803

 

Absolutely love this blade, huge fan of Yukimitsu. Quite the stellar looking blade.

[Kanenaga]

FWIW, recent Juyo zufu no longer use the chu-Aoe/sue-Aoe terminology.  Only ko-Aoe and Aoe.

[Lewis B]

16 hours ago, Lewis B said:

The Shintogo DNA is very clear in this tanto attributed to Yukimitsu. Beautiful forging consistency throughout the jiba. Good example showing how the detail in the nioiguchi and hada are emphasized in these photos.

 

https://eirakudo.shop/172803

And if anyone was wondering about the current market price for a nice mumei Yukimitsu tanto, 10mil JPY

[Sebuh]

13 hours ago, Lewis B said:

And if anyone was wondering about the current market price for a nice mumei Yukimitsu tanto, 10mil JPY

nvm no longer a fan of his