Tanegashima no.3 , black coating?

[Lareon]

I picked up another Tanegashima.

 

Spent the last few hours removing the pins from the stock.

 

They were copper or brass and deformed heavily.

 

Quite a bit of rust under the barrel but there is a mei.

 

It looks to be an Osaka variation. Poppy flower muzzle. Kabuto inlay by the pan cover. Wave motifs inlaid with silver or copper.

 

The strange thing is. It feels or looks like there's some kind of black coating over the barrel.

The colour of the silver is affected and the inlay.

 

I gave it a very gentle clean but it didn't come off.

 

Once I've removed the barrel I see that it stops under the stock.

 

I tested a small section and it comes off with little to no effort and feels gunky.

 

Im unsure if it should be there or not and don't want to damage it. I wondered if it was some kind of protective lacquer.

 

I'll post photos of the whole thing further in this thread but just want to get opinions on this black coating

 

I've included a shot of a chopstick that I used to remove a small section of it under the barrel.

 

At first I thought it was black paint and someone had blacked the barrel, then I thought it was blisters in the metal. Now I'm unsure what it is. You can see the cracks in the substance in these photos.

It's definitely been applied on purpose

 

 

 

[Lareon]

[Lareon]

Here is a comparison to one of my other ones, very similar when it comes to decoration, my previous is much nicer but you can see the difference in the metal and the inlay is almost invisible in the new one

[Bugyotsuji]

Hi Tony, thanks for posting your new gun. Yes that certainly does look like a heavy oil coating but why? For protection against the weather, or for long-term storage??? To cover up something? My guess is it should be removed, somehow. A one-off solution. Paint stripper? Hmmm… maybe test out various things on a tiny corner somewhere.

 

Yes, it is an Osaka gun. The Mei is unusual in that a second name is added below 作 which should normally come last. 摂州住嶋内市右衛門作信定

In my lists I can find Nobuhisa and Sukesada, but not your ‘Nobusada’. Likely a smith of the same Shimauchi house, though. Maybe he added his name later for some reason?

There is a Shimauchi Ichiuemon dated 1801, so yours would be a little later than that.

[ROKUJURO]

Hi Tony,

that black stuff looks like a chemical rust converter to me. Some of these turn into a black, paint-like condition after drying. The shrinkage cracks - especially on photo no. 4 - would support that.

I suspect, a former owner/seller might have messed with the barrel to cover up corrosion damage.

[Lareon]

I might take another look today and remove some from a less visible area and see how it looks.

Don't wish to damage it in any way. So will start soft.

A small soak of Oil didn't loosen it. Nor did warm water or isopropyl. It does come off with abrasion and is soft enough to press a toothpick into.

 

I'll test around the edge of the gun where it sits under the stock. Will have to think how I deal with the areas around the inlays as the metal will be soft and easily damaged. Nothing acidic either or it will affect the inlay. I'll try some mineral spirits to see if it lifts.

 

If it's too onerous I'll leave it. If not I'll clean it up then protect with some oil / renaissance wax

 

 

[Lareon]

Surprisingly. White spirit / mineral spirit / paint thinner had no effect on it. Same with isopropyl.

 

Seems to only be removed with abrasion.

 

 

 

[Brian]

Could be lacquer/Urushi?

[ROKUJURO]

Tony,

in case poly-acryl (as base for rust converter) was involved, you won'get much success with solvents. It is a stubborn stuff....

[Lareon]

2 hours ago, Brian said:

Could be lacquer/Urushi?

I did wonder this. 

The small bit I removed was slightly gunky but the dry section came off like a shellac.

 

I've decided to leave it be. A fair bit of patina on the inlays to the point they have turned green.

 

The nihonto collector in me is adverse to doing anything to it really but it's definitely not being shown in it's best light.

[Lareon]

So I took a small area under the stock of the barrel and spent a while working out what the coating is. It wasn't urushi in the end but it was some kind of coating for sure. It comes off a dark dirt brown.

 

Anyway I decided to get a mild abrasive polish (brasso and silvo)

 

A very small amount of effort removed the top coating of whatever filth was on it.

 

The silver inlays which were so discoloured I thought were brass! Are now visible. There's some pitting here and there and I've only worked on a small area but it is now becoming beautiful again.

[Lareon]

You can see the lowest part of the photo where I have only partially cleaned it. The difference between the exposed silver and covered silver.

[Bugyotsuji]

Waves and ships again, not a common subject, but an amazing coincidence.
Good job so far and happy discoveries! You must surely be relieved, Tony.

[Lareon]

I won't be touching the stock or the inlays on that. I will leave it with it's natural patina and aging but the barrel is coming up quite nicely. I probably won't go much further than this. Then I'll give the iron some oil leave that for a bit then put some renaissance wax on it to keep it protected since it's undergone a mild polish.

[Lareon]

There is still quite a lot of the stubborn substance on there but slowly and carefully it is coming up.

[Bugyotsuji]

阿波 Awa 

Awa no Kuni indicates present-day Tokushima on the east coast of Shikoku.

[Lareon]

4 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

Waves and ships again, not a common subject, but an amazing coincidence.
Good job so far and happy discoveries! You must surely be relieved, Tony.

 

Interesting. I assumed it was a common pattern for the Osaka guns. If not then it is a happy coincidence.

 

And yes relieved as my constant fear is to damage or do harm in some way to them. Now that I am pretty certain it's just a layer of dirt/gunk it's nice to bring out some of the inherent beauty in it.

 

The biggest problem is now where to keep my ever growing Armoury

[Bugyotsuji]

If your wife is happy, let it grow and take over a whole room to start with…

[Lareon]

4 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said:

阿波 Awa 

Awa no Kuni indicates present-day Tokushima on the east coast of Shikoku.

Thank you. It would be interesting to see the spread of the different styles across the country and how they deviate. I guess that's a topic to read into at some point.

[Bugyotsuji]

Your gun is from Osaka but possibly the owner had it decorated to indicate trade to and from Awa. They are fairly close geographically, so it is nice to imagine the background.

 

My own collection reflects the ‘spread of different styles across the country’ as you put it, something I have been gently but consciously aiming for, for some years now.

 

PS If you can find a copy of Sawada Taira’s 日本の古銃 ‘Nihon no Furujū’, it is full of illustrative photos of this spread, among other things, despite it being in Japanese.