Support needed for 2 swords

[Kubur]

Hi everyone,

I’d really appreciate your help in identifying two swords I’ve come across.

Any insights or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance!
Kubur

[ChrisW]

Hard to say much other than they appear to be proper antique Japanese swords. Can you give us some measurements? (Blade edge length, etc. ) Pictures of the nakago (tang) would also be very helpful in estimating age/might tell you who made it.

[Rivkin]

First is koshi zori with a larger chu kissaki. By default Muromachi, less likely later than 1530.

Correction: just looked at higher res version, hard to say actually. hope better pictures will tell!

Second is shot at weird angle, no comments.

[Kubur]

Thanks Chris,

I will do more photos.

 

Thanks Kirill,

I will take better photos of the second sword.

I'm a happy owner of your two books! :-)

 

[Rivkin]

23 minutes ago, Kubur said:

Thanks Kirill,

I will take better photos of the second sword.

I'm a happy owner of your two books! :-)

 

 

Thanks! 

Photos of bare blades from the top, the bare nakago (I think there is little risk in getting out pins here), some details of the blades can help a lot. P.S. I am not as good with Japanese blades though, but it usually works out.

[Kubur]

 Hi 

I posted more photos on the other forum, nihonto discussion

Thanks

:-)

[Kubur]

12 hours ago, Kubur said:

 Hi 

I posted more photos on the other forum, nihonto discussion

Thanks

:-)

I post here too, I don't know which forum is the best. Thanks!!

[Rivkin]

Can we see the first one in the same manner?

[Kubur]

Hi,

 

I'm sending more photos of the two swords.

Thanks for your support and comments

 

[Kubur]

more photod

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

and the second sword

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

I like both, but I prefer the one on the Katana kake...

[Kubur]

Hi Guys,

 

More photos as requested, any opinions?

 

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

[Kubur]

[Scogg]

Thank you for sharing your blades. Unfortunately, it's difficult to provide meaningful feedback based on the current photos. Because your swords are mumei (unsigned), we must rely entirely on their sugata (overall shape), hamon, hada, and other physical details to offer reliable feedback.
 

I’ve attached a visual guide (see below) outlining how to photograph a nihonto for the most accurate feedback, please:

- Photograph the entire blade (sugata) from a straight overhead angle, with the tip pointing north and tang pointing south.
- Remove all fittings, including the habaki, to expose the full blade and tang (nakago).

 

Also close-ups of:
-The kissaki/boshi (tip)
- The hada/hamon (grain/temper line)
- The hamachi/munemachi (notches of the edge and spine @ the nakago)
- The nakago/mei (tang/signature area, even if unsigned)

Against a dark background is best.
 

From what I can see so far, your blades appear to be suriage or osuriage mumei katana with extended kissaki, very likely pre-WW2. However, clearer and more complete images are needed for meaningful feedback.
 

Can you discern a visible hamon in the kissaki area (Boshi)?
Cool swords!

All the best,
-Sam

[Scogg]

PS...

Sorry to ask for so many very specific photos. It’s just the nature of the beast in this hobby 

 

Your photos are actually quite well done, but for the more knowledgeable members to give good information: very specific angles and details are necessary. Even then, photographs of nihonto are almost always limited in what they can reveal. Often, the best way to get truly accurate information is to have the sword examined in person by an expert.
 

Best,
-Sam

[Kubur]

Thank you very much Sam

I tried to follow Jean's tips. However the light is really not great.

I will focus on the area that you mentioned.

One blade is clean but the other is tarnished. Which kind of products should i sued to clean it and block the rust?

Thanks again

[Scogg]

First and foremost, do not do anything to the tang (nakago). It’s very important that area remains unmolested. 

 

Otherwise, just a light cleaning and oiling is what you will want to do. 
https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/faq/1-care-and-maintenance/
 

I would skip any use of uchiko. It ends up causing more harm than good unless you’re very familiar with what you’re doing and have high quality uchiko.

 

Best of luck,

-Sam 

PS. When in doubt, do not hurry. The blades have survived long before we were alive, and they will survive through our lifetime and beyond. So if you are uncomfortable with anything above, don’t feel bad to wait until you can do more research.

 

If Nihonto has taught me anything in life, it’s patience 

[Rivkin]

Unfortunately both out of polish, so its next to impossible to say something. They are bother either o-kissaki or extended chu kissaki, which suggests shinshinto, Momoyama or Nambokucho. 

The one where we can see the hamon looks a bit like Mino or Bizen from Muromachi, so might be Momoyama of this school.

The one with hi - the hi is not the best cutting job I've seen, but the blade itself might be either of these three options, or less likely something else. It does not look very beefy, so also might be koto. If one is lucky even Nanbokucho, but there is zero polish so no idea.

[Kubur]

1 hour ago, Rivkin said:

Unfortunately both out of polish, so its next to impossible to say something. They are bother either o-kissaki or extended chu kissaki, which suggests shinshinto, Momoyama or Nambokucho. 

The one where we can see the hamon looks a bit like Mino or Bizen from Muromachi, so might be Momoyama of this school.

The one with hi - the hi is not the best cutting job I've seen, but the blade itself might be either of these three options, or less likely something else. It does not look very beefy, so also might be koto. If one is lucky even Nanbokucho, but there is zero polish so no idea.

Thanks! I thought 19th c you are suggesting earlier? About polish: just with the oil mnetionned by Sam? Have a great day or night

[Rivkin]

49 minutes ago, Kubur said:

Thanks! I thought 19th c you are suggesting earlier? About polish: just with the oil mnetionned by Sam? Have a great day or night

No, I was saying Muromachi additionally. It can still be 19th century, but I am more inclined to guess (there is really little), its earlier.

Regarding polish - these blades need to be studied in hand, before that very light oil cover could be applied.