Some advice for new collectors (because different flavours are available)

[Matsunoki]

What follows is simply a different view on how and why to get into this collecting field. It is based on my experience and is purely my opinion. Just some random musings.

 

1.Before you dive in understand how the market is structured (it’s exactly the same as any other collecting market) 

Imagine a pyramid, wide at the base, pointed at the top. At the base there are a great many collectors interested in a wide range of swords for many different personal and aspirational reasons. These will usually be the more modestly priced swords but that does NOT MEAN THEY ARE CRAP. 
As you gradually look higher up the marketplace pyramid you will find the numerical customer base quickly reduces the higher you ascend and as the price of the swords increases.

At the top of the pyramid you will find a vastly reduced customer base able (and willing) to spend large sums of money on the rarest of swords.

 

This is pretty obvious stuff but the new collector should now start to think about where they might envisage themselves ending up. What are their aspirations (because they will vary enormously) What are they aiming for? Above all, what is realistic.

 

2. Ask yourself why are you joining this hobby? What do you want to collect because there is a great variety…..and remember it’s your decision, no-one should attempt to tell you what to do. This is your collection, your hobby.

 

       Military stuff?

       Just blades …..

        Old swords, newer swords, modern swords?

       Complete swords (ie with koshirae that have not been cobbled together or made recently)

       Just long swords? just short swords?

       Just something to hang on the wall?

        How much money have I got that I can expose to risk.

        Do I want a varied collection or just one sword? 

       Would I rather change my car?

3. Basic knowledge needed (can be gleaned from numerous books)

       How to spot a fake or replica

      How are swords actually forged, hardened and polished

      What flaws and problems in the blade will be encountered. How to recognise them and which are serious

 

4. Take a look at the marketplace in action…..sword prices in various sectors…auctions, dealers, forums,  Japan, …..easily achieved on the internet. Within my target market what might fit within my budget. 

 

5. Anyone around nearby that I can talk to….clubs, shows, dealers, internet forums. How do I network and build contacts?

     

 

1-5 above should have caused some forethought and most importantly a reality check and maybe the formulation of some sort of plan together with an understanding of the basics of swords. It need only take a few months not years. 

 

OK….. now what?

 

Well a few facts to keep in mind…..

 

It is unwise to buy swords for investment purposes. The higher the price generally the greater the risk. 

You will not buy an “important sword” for a few thousand but you can certainly buy acceptable quality and interesting examples (and don’t be misled by those that sneer and deride lower valued pieces) 

If buying from a dealer understand and respect that it is how he makes his living (or perhaps partially) and therefore he will have his profit built in. On very expensive swords that profit could be substantial.

Many dealers are highly respectable and experts in their field. Some are not. 
Beware eBay and all similar auction sites. 

If a sword is available on the internet from a dealer in Japan it is usually because no one in Japan wants to buy it at that price. (Worth just thinking about that is)

Always try to actually handle a sword before you buy it.

At some point you might want to quit the hobby or raise or lower your sights. Be prepared to change. You will find out if this rabbit warren really is for you. 

Ultimately…..spend your money on what makes you happy and try not to make too many mistakes along the way (we all made mistakes, some more than others apparently🙂🙂🙂☹️)

It’s a journey and an adventure, have some fun…..remember what you’ve decided and go buy something. 

 

 

 

 

[Mushin]

34 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

What follows is simply a different view on how and why to get into this collecting field. It is based on my experience and is purely my opinion. Just some random musings

Awesome post, Colin! Clear guidance for everyone. I think it's also important to remember that as you climb the pyramid, there's a certain place where some pieces can be difficult to move/sell/trade. It's kind of the upper upper middle/lower top tier, kind of a slow zone, where blades are too expensive for most collectors but not in the realm to entice top-end connoisseurs. Reminds me of what a realtor (estate agent) told me recently about house prices: Those houses over $4m and those under $150k move quickly. Everything in between sits around longer, waiting for the right buyer and sometimes it can be a loooong wait. So, like Colin says, buy what makes you happy, always buy the best you can at your budget, and you are unlikely to go wrong. But at the same time, remember that your taste might change over time as you learn and see more, or something might suddenly come up where you might need to get your money out. So my caveat is the more rarified or narrow your taste - certain schools, blades in rough condition, smaller blades -  the  fewer the opportunities might be when it comes to cash out or trade up. So, finding others who like what you like, your community if you will, is a great way to not only hedge against that, but it's a better way to learn, share and enjoy even more!

[Hokke]

Great points Colin, exactly what newcomers should see to start them on their journey. 
IMO, this thread should be pinned to the top of the page.

[Brano]

I can agree with you on a lot of what you wrote Colin
However, I think it is unrealistic for anyone to gain enough knowledge about nihonto in a few months to be able to judge the quality of the blade they are looking at

[Matsunoki]

6 minutes ago, Brano said:

However, I think it is unrealistic for anyone to gain enough knowledge about nihonto in a few months to be able to judge the quality of the blade they are looking at

I didn’t say they would. I agree but I’m talking about getting started.

Ive met collectors who have been at it for years and still can’t tell a good blade from an average one🙂

[Hokke]

How about we steer clear of assumptions in this thread and focus on general guidelines, which is exactly what has been done. 

[Brano]

15 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Ive met collectors who have been at it for years and still can’t tell a good blade from an average one🙂

I completely agree with you on this too.

[Brano]

15 minutes ago, Hokke said:

How about we steer clear of assumptions in this thread and focus on general guidelines, which is exactly what has been done. 

How long have you personally been studying Nihonto?
What I wrote is not an assumption, but an experience

[Matsunoki]

Please, let’s not turn this into another scrap!

 

[Hokke]

Just now, Matsunoki said:

Please, let’s not turn this into another scrap!

 

I agree Colin, like you, I want this thread to remain open, so I will be as diplomatic as humanly possible. 

[Hokke]

22 minutes ago, Brano said:

How long have you personally been studying Nihonto?
What I wrote is not an assumption, but an experience

Its an assumption that anyone purchasing a nihonto, is doing so based on specific blade qualities. As mentioned numerous times previously, there are those who purchase nihonto for other reasons, which include appearance, historic significance and authenticity, not to mention, price point. If you disagree then you are saying there are “rules” to owning nihonto, which is ridiculous. 

[John C]

I would advise the new collector, once they narrow down what it is they want to collect, they focus as much energy and study on spotting issues/fakes as much as studying what is good. There are so many issues that can occur with blades that make a beautiful blade not worth the asking price. A gorgeous blade with a small vertical crack in the ha can have a fatal flaw.

Some mistakes I have made: buying a blade that had beautiful pictures of the hamon - except there was about 3 inches in the middle of the blade missing from the pictures, which I didn't notice at the time. I found out why when I got the blade and there were chips in that spot. Look at the pictures CAREFULLY.

I have blindly trusted "approved sellers" and found undisclosed issues after receiving the blade. Study the blade in detail. Don't assume that the blade is as described just because the seller is "approved." 

A little knowledge is dangerous. After doing some thorough research, I thought I knew enough to purchase a certain blade. Received the blade and found something was not correct. Had I chosen the blade first, THEN did the research on that particular blade before purchasing, I may have noticed that it wasn't correct.

 

It takes a lot of research to figure out how many potential issues a blade can have. 

 

John C.

 

 

[Mikaveli]

Polish is something for the new collector to be aware of, especially anything described as out of polish or "just needs a polish" (even more so, if given as a remediation route for any visible flaws).

 

To people outside the hobby, "polishing" conveys little more than a polishing cloth and a tin of brasso, or 🙈 a machine polishing wheel!

 

People won't initially realise that "polishing" in Nihonto terms is the grinding, sharpening, sometimes shaping _and_ final polish, using traditional methods. With both a long lead time and high costs (especially if looking at more affordable blades).

 

Very often, before people realise how a modern / non traditional "polish" will damage the blade, and hurt resale value - they want rust gone and their blade shiny... costly mistake, both financially and from a preservation perspective.

[Brano]

1 hour ago, Hokke said:

Its an assumption that anyone purchasing a nihonto, is doing so based on specific blade qualities. As mentioned numerous times previously, there are those who purchase nihonto for other reasons, which include appearance, historic significance and authenticity, not to mention, price point. If you disagree then you are saying there are “rules” to owning nihonto, which is ridiculous. 

First of all, to be clear - I have nothing personal against you
But to say - "If you disagree then you are saying there are “rules” to owning a nihonto" is nonsense

 

You are talking about historic significance
What exactly do you mean by this term?
The documented history of the blade, or is it enough that the blade is 400 years old?
If something is on the market in the amount of several hundred thousand pieces, that does not mean that every piece is historically important

And authenticity is the absolutely basic prerequisite for a nihonto

 

I do not at all condemn anyone who collects in any format - it is their free decision, their money, their responsibility

I am only emphasizing that a collector in any field should educate themselves

[Mikaveli]

5 minutes ago, Brano said:

But to say - "If you disagree then you are saying there are “rules” to owning a nihonto" is nonsense

 

I took that to mean there are no rules to dictate your motivation for owning a Nihonto.

[Matsunoki]

@Brano

please, leave it.

Please. 

[Schneeds]

23 hours ago, Matsunoki said:

If a sword is available on the internet from a dealer in Japan it is usually because no one in Japan wants to buy it at that price. (Worth just thinking about that is)

 

Is this actually the case nowadays though?  How do Japanese clients from other parts of the country know what you have to offer if you don't list it online?

[Hokke]

33 minutes ago, Schneeds said:

Is this actually the case nowadays though?  How do Japanese clients from other parts of the country know what you have to offer if you don't list it online?

Colin may have different reasoning but I understood it as: Many of these dealers have brick and mortar shops. Items are available for sale there first and if they do not sell, they are then posted online for the world to view. 
In some cases, dealers will post items for sale online in the native language section and then after a period of time will have them available in the translated sections. 

[Mushin]

1 hour ago, Hokke said:

Colin may have different reasoning but I understood it as: Many of these dealers have brick and mortar shops. Items are available for sale there first and if they do not sell, they are then posted online for the world to view. 
In some cases, dealers will post items for sale online in the native language section and then after a period of time will have them available in the translated sections. 

Hokke, there is some truth to this but it is far from universal. Big dealers, and those with lots of international clientele, pretty much post inventory daily to some degree for all to see once the work is photographed and a write up is complete. Good example is Aoi Art, which pretty much publishes several pieces daily in English, Japanese and Chinese simultaneously. Any delay between acquiring a piece and posting it usually involves the time it takes to scan the work and make an oshigata. Eirakudo.shop puts up one usually very decent sword or fitting everyday, and, at the lower levels, nipponto.co.jp usually posts two or three everyday, with the occasional nice surprise. At least two (Choshuya.co.jp and samurai-nippon.net,) release monthly or bimonthly catalogues -- one in the post and one electronically -- to all those who sign up (and pay a small fee.) That said,  what is true is what's online usually represents  just a fraction of their total inventory, and the very best swords, or should I say those by smiths with the biggest name cache, are often not listed until after they are first shown to top clients or after DTI. (I get the impression that as top pieces are becoming more difficult to source, they are put aside for DTI, which is where the best swords and fittings they have gotten over the previous year are showcased. I'd love to know what percentage of these dealers' annual sales are at DTI.) Most of those top pieces are made initially available to small groups because of the size of the price tag. Some top sites that used to post top offerings several times a week, like Iidakoeno and Tsuruginoya, now post just decent pieces a few times a year, and some haven't posted new stuff in ages. I wouldn't even know they were still in business if I didn't see their offerings in the DTI catalogue. Several smaller and regional dealers though do operate like Hokke says, only posting online what isn't selling in their shop. While it could a business strategy, I suspect it might really be because they lack the staff to do all the preparatory work or are older and aren't computer literate.

[DirkO]

Yes, they're usually available locally before they're put online. Some shops also work with magazines and they refuse to sell anything online for a certain grace period, making sure all subscriptions get a fair chance first. However, online doesn't mean that non-Japanese can buy it. In 2 cases when I inquired about a piece I was told it was for Japanese market only and they don't sell to foreigners. So I had to involve someone locally as an in-between to buy those pieces on my behalf.

[Lewis B]

katananokura.jp say they will not ship outside Japan. Shame because they get some nice pieces. 

[Mushin]

33 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

katananokura.jp say they will not ship outside Japan. Shame because they get some nice pieces. 

That has always been their policy. But given the mess of shipping to Europe and the thefts and tariff mess in the US, I can hardly blame them.

[John C]

This type of sales tactic may not be exclusive to Japanese sellers. I know of at least one seller based in the US who posts much of his best stuff on facebook; puts his junkier stuff on Ebay; and puts the best stuff on ebay if it doesn't sell on facebook first.

 

John C.

[Hokke]

On 8/24/2025 at 2:39 PM, John C said:

This type of sales tactic may not be exclusive to Japanese sellers. I know of at least one seller based in the US who posts much of his best stuff on facebook; puts his junkier stuff on Ebay; and puts the best stuff on ebay if it doesn't sell on facebook first.

 

John C.

I dont have a FB account, so im not familiar with the sections, but im surprised there is that much of a nihonto following. Didnt know that platform had turned into such a sales site. 

[Brano]

"Nihonto Group. Discussion and Study of Traditionally Made Japanese Swords" alone has over 13k members
Many items are offered for sale via FB and I would say more successfully compared to NMB
Perhaps NMB is more educational oriented - or at least that was the intention

[Hokke]

11 hours ago, Brano said:

"Nihonto Group. Discussion and Study of Traditionally Made Japanese Swords" alone has over 13k members
Many items are offered for sale via FB and I would say more successfully compared to NMB
Perhaps NMB is more educational oriented - or at least that was the intention

Good to know, ill have to take a look 

[Scogg]

To echo what’s been said above. Facebook has an extremely active Nihonto community with several groups. At least a few of the groups are moderated by fellow NMB members. 
 

From what I can tell, Facebook has a lot more buying and selling with less discussion. Whereas NMB has a lot of discussion with less buying and selling. 

[Hokke]

In accordance with No. 3 on Colin’s list, has anyone ever encountered a “fake” that was so well done it had to be reviewed by peers to confirm. Lets assume fake to mean a purposeful attempt to misrepresent a blade not of Japanese origin as nihonto, or even shinsakuto. Im aware this is difficult to accomplish with nihonto since artificial aging is a trick not yet mastered, but that doesn't mean some haven't come close. 
Im curious because in the watch world this has become somewhat ordinary. It used to be that fakes could be spotted from a distance. Then, they needed only be held. As time passed, it required magnification on the outside. Now, we have super clones that are so well made, they must be opened and the smallest of differences must be identified. Ironically, we have replicas that actually perform better than the original in time keeping. 

So is anyone aware of such an effort?

[John C]

23 minutes ago, Hokke said:

So is anyone aware of such an effort?

Calabrese:

There have been some very decent "replica" swords made from the 70s and 80s when the demand for Japanese souvenirs started to increase. But I think there is a semantic distinction between replica and fake, meaning it depends on the intent of the seller. Replica swords, like all other replicas, are made to feed a market need, however if one takes these swords and sells/markets them as the real thing, they become "fake." Just my two cents.

John C.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Some of the high quality Chinese made Japanese swords would fool me personally, if I wouldn't know the origin. I think they show high level workmanship and are of good quality. I haven't personally owned any Chinese made items of this quality but I have owned lot of low-mid level Chinese made stuff and some of them were actually quite nice, and extremely nice vs. the money invested in them.

 

Here are two such examples.

 

https://www.swordcn.com/Naginata-Wakizashi-（Cherry-blossoms-koshirae）by-Zsey-p290841.html

https://www.swordcn.com/Muramasa-Wicked-Katana-Sword-Replica-by-Zsey-p290846.html