Number Stamped On Tsuba

[cluckdaddy76]

Can someone tell me why the number 342 seems to be stamped on tbe bottom of this nakago ana? This is for learning purposes only, this is an auction that just came out on Yahoo Japan. Already it has multiple bids and is over $3,500 USD without papers. I also am not blown away by the quality considering the current price tag. Can anyone fill me in on anything I am missing, I completely understand this could just be a style of a certain school which demands the price, I just do not see it myself

[cluckdaddy76]

Front

[cluckdaddy76]

Back

[cluckdaddy76]

Mei

[Curran]

Old museum catalog numbers?

Quite a few of my tsuba have old lacquer or other numbers somewhere on seppa dais or inside the nakago ana.

 

Old carved or stamped ones like that are not commonly seen.

It is a bit of defacement, but I don't think anyone is going to belly ache over this one where the design more than overshadows that little bit of scar.

[Jake6500]

Agree with Curran, I have also observed this same auction listing.

 

The numbers are undoubtedly very old museum catalogue numbers indicating this tsuba has been around for a long time and is probably in some very old book somewhere.

 

 

[cluckdaddy76]

I was thinking it was museum related, but have only seen chalk, I did not think a museum would actually stamp on the iron itself. 

Here is the link to the auction for better pics.

 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/d1192601501

 

 

 

 

[Jake6500]

18 minutes ago, cluckdaddy76 said:

I was thinking it was museum related, but have only seen chalk, I did not think a museum would actually stamp on the iron itself. 

Here is the link to the auction for better pics.

 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/d1192601501

 

 

 

 

 

i highly doubt that any museum would do such a thing today but in the past, say in the 1890's or something? Absolutely.

 

The city of Troy was excavated haphazardly by an amateur (at least by modern standards) with dynamite. He literally blew a huge hole in the middle of the ancient city without a care in the world in pursuit of gold and treasure. Compared to that a couple numbers on a tsuba is nothing!

[Spartancrest]

Hi Jason, similar thread here: Also on some impressive pieces.

See also: [ title needs an 'S' removed !]

The link to the auction in the thread does not work anymore but I tracked down the auction records.

link here to the 2014 tsuba auction:

https://www.batemans.com/catalogue/afb4f32c61312999f80895cc7c754b1c/9f72c1814b6f84555a7fe5bc5d559a1b/two-day-sale-of-fine-art-antiques-collectables-to-include/?view=grid-wide&searchTerm=tsuba&searchOption=1

Four have punched numbers added - unfortunately the provenance does not tell who or where they came from. Two show consecutive numbers, so it is likely they are all from one collection originally.

 

 

Images even at the time, were very dark and hard to see the numbers. Image is enhanced with numbers shown. 

[cluckdaddy76]

Thanks for all the replies, there is an endless amount of knowledge to learn when it comes to this hobby.  I will go down the rabbit hole and see if I can find out which museum did this or was it multiple back in the day.

 

Jason

[Curran]

2 hours ago, cluckdaddy76 said:

 I will go down the rabbit hole and see if I can find out which museum did this or was it multiple back in the day.

 

It was multiple back in the day.  

Museums still open and museums now defunct did all sorts of things to them.

Tiffany made a fireplace hood out of them.  https://morsemuseum.org/on-exhibit/fireplace-hood-installation/

(look closely).

 

Even more respectable museums like the Boston Museum of Fine Arts somehow managed to trash a lot of their sukashi tsuba.

They look fine from the top, but an angled view shows many have been turned into swiss cheese. Who knows how they did that?  Super special sauce to inhibit the naturally forming rust inside the sukashi? (my first guess)

 

Yours got off lucky.

 

 

[cluckdaddy76]

I did not purchase this one, I was just studying. This went for 2,555,000 yen, $17,300 USD. I was looking for a gift for myself, but this was a bit steep . It is also not my taste in tsuba. I would spend $17,000 much differently if I had that amount to spend.

 

Jason

[Curran]

4 hours ago, cluckdaddy76 said:

I did not purchase this one, I was just studying. This went for 2,555,000 yen, $17,300 USD. I was looking for a gift for myself, but this was a bit steep . It is also not my taste in tsuba. I would spend $17,000 much differently if I had that amount to spend.

 

Jason

 

And I would have sold such a tsuba for 2k to 3k.

I really need to divorce myself from sales and let free market take over.

 

Thanks for the follow up.

Good luck in your future tsuba purchases.

[cluckdaddy76]

Curran, in total agreement with you, I did not think this piece was worth much more than 3K, I would have at least expected papers at that price considering in came from Japan.

 

Jason

[Matsunoki]

Great subject but utterly crazy price. The super rich…..🤪

[cluckdaddy76]

I watch the auctions, and I mean many different one's regularly as I feel this is a great way to study. I have noticed a huge uptick in tsuba going for much more than they were even say six months ago. This includes both legitimate pieces and people greatly overpaying for modern pieces. To me it seems a bunch of newer collectors without much knowledge and deep pockets have jumped into this hobby recently. Just my opinion.

 

Jason

[Curran]

I watched what looked like an Issei Naruki utsushi of a Yagyu [bamboo design].

Maybe it is real, but I had serious doubts.

 

It went from $435 to  $2613 in the last hour or so of bidding.

As an Issei Naruki, probably worth about $1000?

 

I'm largely just a spectator of the few I find interesting, but still some of them are going for far than my retro brain would think to list them.

 

[Spartancrest]

On 7/16/2025 at 11:09 AM, Curran said:

Even more respectable museums like the Boston Museum of Fine Arts somehow managed to trash a lot of their sukashi tsuba.

Cleveland Museum of Art, left some with "mounting" damage on a few of their exhibits. Luckily within the seppa-dai but still not excusable.

[Jake6500]

On 7/23/2025 at 7:43 AM, cluckdaddy76 said:

I watch the auctions, and I mean many different one's regularly as I feel this is a great way to study. I have noticed a huge uptick in tsuba going for much more than they were even say six months ago. This includes both legitimate pieces and people greatly overpaying for modern pieces. To me it seems a bunch of newer collectors without much knowledge and deep pockets have jumped into this hobby recently. Just my opinion.

 

Jason

The Tosogu market as a whole is quite strong at the moment, pieces selling for big bucks over the past 6 months or so, multiple pieces exceeding the 400,000 yen mark.

 

That said you can still get a good deal here and there with a bit of luck and patience. I've recently made three decent purchases over the past few weeks which I will be sharing with the forum soon. One of them I literally secured with the winning bid less than an hour ago at the time of writing this comment!!

 

I think as a general rule shiny stuff (shibuichi, shakudo, gold) and cultural depictions like gods, oni or yokai are in vogue right now whereas some solid pieces depicting less flashy things are still going under the radar on occasion. 

 

[cluckdaddy76]

Jake I agree with you, the flashy kinko tsuba with certain depictions seem to be fetching top dollar right now. I feel one currently has a better shot at openwork iron tsuba if you have a trained eye. I will have two of those that I plan on sharing soon once they arrive as I believe I did very well with these pieces. Hozon papered pieces that are mediocre in my opinion are also going for good money these days too. I understand that it is a few hundred USD to get papered so people may factor that in, but if the tsuba itself is not all that appealing, I would never buy just because it has modern hozon papers. I am only just starting to make purchases; I was lucky to come into the bulk of my collection all at once and was given great advice to study first before venturing out into the market. My collection kept me busy for a few years, but now it is time to do some hunting. I am attracted to natural motifs such as plants and animals and for some reason prefer iron. I do have my eye on a nice shibuichi plate tsuba coming up for auction that I am hoping will fly under the radar. 

[Matsunoki]

Once something appears on the open market via the net it will get seen and it is the market that will decide what it’s worth. Very few pieces “fly under the radar”….instead it is a reflection of what is desirable in the prevailing market.

For many many years fine quality kinko tsuba have been drastically underrated from a technical manufacturing  (and sometimes artistic) perspective but now the “penny has dropped” and they are being seen as an investment opportunity.  A good example of how the best of any commodity commands a premium. Add in the quirky and unusual subject matters and there seems to be no glass ceiling. 
Iron tsuba have a different market more influenced by papers maybe?? Not my subject so I don’t know. 

The buyers of fine mixed metal pieces don’t give a stuff about papers (rightly so imo)

[Spartancrest]

On 7/31/2025 at 6:07 PM, Matsunoki said:

Once something appears on the open market via the net it will get seen and it is the market that will decide what it’s worth.

True enough, I have followed several tsuba that I would love to have - nothing fancy just interesting shapes. However the asking prices are not what the market is prepared to pay [this includes me!] So I know of several pieces that have been on the market for at least eight years! No "bites" and no lowering of the sellers prices - I guess the dealers are waiting for inflation to catch up and don't mind hanging onto stock for around a decade! The market works both ways. 

[Jake6500]

On 7/31/2025 at 11:12 AM, cluckdaddy76 said:

Jake I agree with you, the flashy kinko tsuba with certain depictions seem to be fetching top dollar right now. I feel one currently has a better shot at openwork iron tsuba if you have a trained eye. I will have two of those that I plan on sharing soon once they arrive as I believe I did very well with these pieces. Hozon papered pieces that are mediocre in my opinion are also going for good money these days too. I understand that it is a few hundred USD to get papered so people may factor that in, but if the tsuba itself is not all that appealing, I would never buy just because it has modern hozon papers. I am only just starting to make purchases; I was lucky to come into the bulk of my collection all at once and was given great advice to study first before venturing out into the market. My collection kept me busy for a few years, but now it is time to do some hunting. I am attracted to natural motifs such as plants and animals and for some reason prefer iron. I do have my eye on a nice shibuichi plate tsuba coming up for auction that I am hoping will fly under the radar. 

Lucky you, my love of flashy designs, shibuichi and shakudo has been bleeding me dry 

 

My favourite types of pieces by and large are the ones going through the roof in price. I do have a pretty broad collection though which has been described by other Australian members on this board as "random" (they're honestly not wrong) so I can still find affordable pieces here and there!