ROKUJURO Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 Kenneth, welcome to the NMB forum! Nice little collection there, but to comment on the items we would certainly need close-ups for the details. Please use a dark, non-reflecting background for a good contrast when making photos, and cut off what is not needed to show the object. Photos of the HIMOTOSHI are always important. 2 Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 Sorry to say that from these images they all look like modern fakes. None exhibit the skill and subtlety of Japanese carving. Some may be ivory which just makes it worse. Personally I would rather own one genuine piece than a multitude of these. 2 Quote
SpunkyMatney Posted January 11 Report Posted January 11 Thanks for the replies! Here are a few closer pictures. I will try to take some with the black back ground, I already had these taken from yesterday. Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 Sorry, still the same conclusion. All fake. Not sure extra images will tell us anything else. 2 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted January 12 Author Report Posted January 12 None really have a Japanese feel to them. All products of subsequent bandwagon workshops, mostly from China I suspect. 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 54 minutes ago, Bugyotsuji said: mostly from China I suspect. I agree Piers…..and if ivory they are a contributing factor to the modern mass slaughter of elephants in Africa which in turn has led to ivory bans on the sale of wonderful older works of art which hasn’t saved a single elephant. ☹️ 1 Quote
SpunkyMatney Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 (edited) 9 hours ago, Matsunoki said: I agree Piers…..and if ivory they are a contributing factor to the modern mass slaughter of elephants in Africa which in turn has led to ivory bans on the sale of wonderful older works of art which hasn’t saved a single elephant. ☹️ Thank you for the replies! I suspected they were all fakes after doing some research, but wanted to get some opinions on here. I didn't pay much for them, they went for $110 at auction for all 11. The looked unique and I had never heard of netsuke, I'm glad I bought them though, I have learned a lot in the last week about netsuke, ivory and how the carve the netsuke, very interesting stuff. I'm going to see if I can sell all of these and find a real one, start my collection with a legit netsuke. Not sure if selling all of these will give me enough to get a real one. How much would a real netsuke cost, on the low end? Edited January 12 by SpunkyMatney Quote
SpunkyMatney Posted January 12 Report Posted January 12 10 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said: None really have a Japanese feel to them. All products of subsequent bandwagon workshops, mostly from China I suspect. Thank you Piers! I appreciate the info. I will see if I can find a real one, I think I can identify ivory now, and I'm getting more confident in recognizing high quality Japanese carvings, after watch and reading about netsuke for the last week. Would you have any idea what the reddish dog with circular patterns on it is made of? I was thinking ivory at first, but the circular pattern and the reddish color don't seem to match elephant ivory, maybe a different type of ivory or maybe bone. Thanks again for taking time to reply! Quote
Matsunoki Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 13 hours ago, SpunkyMatney said: . I'm going to see if I can sell all of these and find a real one, start my collection with a legit netsuke Excellent idea. These fakes are just a waste of your money? 13 hours ago, SpunkyMatney said: How much would a real netsuke cost, on the low end? Well, assuming you are going to collect wooden netsuke then you can buy something “basic”, maybe something more “folk art” than “high art” for around $200-400 but beware, there are thousands, probably millions, of fake wooden pieces. The worldwide marketplace is overflowing with them. Just look on eBay! Keep training your eye until you can spot the fake immediately and be patient. Spend a lot of time looking at this link…… https://www.bonhams.com/search/?chronology=past&query=Netsuke 3 Quote
SpunkyMatney Posted January 13 Report Posted January 13 13 hours ago, Matsunoki said: Spend a lot of time looking at this link…… https://www.bonhams.com/search/?chronology=past&query=Netsuke Wow, some absolutely beautiful items! Like you said, the ones I have do not have the artistry that real netsuke have, mine look like any ol' carver could do, those on the site took some serious skill! Thanks again! Quote
PietroParis Posted January 15 Report Posted January 15 (edited) Budget netsuke is one of my favorite netsuke topics (mostly out of necessity... With some luck and patience you can buy genuine antique netsuke even for less than 200 euro, but you need to know what you are doing to distinguish them from the 99.9% of fakes you will find in that price range. These for example I paid around 100 euro each (two on eBay, one in a flea market and one in a local auction): This one was 70 euro in a flea market: This one I paid around 100 euro at auction but it has some obvious damage: Edited January 15 by PietroParis 2 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted January 15 Author Report Posted January 15 Thanks Pietro! There are many ways and means of finding good netsuke at a reasonable price, but you do need to train your eye on good examples first in order to be able to spot the bargains. Then get out and about to fairs and auctions and discover the sweet spots and the places to avoid. I found one this very morning. Definitely if you don’t mind a little damage you can buy a very good Netsuke, even signed, and admire the carving work for a huge saving compared to a ‘perfect’ example. It will also educate you as to the hand of a particular master carver. Step by step one gets to Rome! 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Thursday at 07:03 AM Author Report Posted Thursday at 07:03 AM On 12/4/2025 at 4:33 AM, ROKUJURO said: To me, they look like somewhat distorted interpretations of SEN no RIKYU's famous bamboo HANAIRE (one of them being called "ONJÔJI") Today I found another example of a 'hanaire', still attached to a kinchaku purse. Thanks to this thread I recognized it as such (Jean!) and we can clearly see which himotoshi hole(s) was/were used for the himo cord. The other holes look decorative... except that on the back this one has a tiny slot as if to hang on a peg or a nail. Bamboo (stag antler) Hana-ire hanging wall vase container. Behind 3 1 Quote
John C Posted Thursday at 07:55 PM Report Posted Thursday at 07:55 PM Interesting. They all seem to have the two small holes and two large holes (with carved branches I assume) in the front. Any idea what the symbolism is behind that? John C. Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Friday at 12:28 AM Author Report Posted Friday at 12:28 AM Not really, no John, but they would have had drills at hand for making Netsuke and himotoshi holes, so it would be an easy way to add decoration, and lose some of the unnecessary weight of stag antler. There is actually a third large hole on the one above, (see to the left side). Tsuba holes. We have a thread running here on the NMB concerning holes in tsuba. Sometimes they are said to be udenuki no ana, for lashing a sword to your wrist when on horseback, and when they are a large and small pair, sometimes they are said to symbolize the sun and the moon, 日月 jitsugetsu. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Friday at 12:31 AM Author Report Posted Friday at 12:31 AM Pay peanuts and get monkeys! Some time ago this example came along. Too badly damaged to be repaired, missing a hand, but plenty here to enjoy! 3 Quote
PietroParis Posted Friday at 01:11 AM Report Posted Friday at 01:11 AM (edited) This BTW shows how misleading the condition of a netsuke can be. Without the signature I would have thought your monkey to be about 100 years older than what it must be. Edited Friday at 01:12 AM by PietroParis 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Friday at 03:14 AM Author Report Posted Friday at 03:14 AM “Worked between 1840 and 1875…” 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Friday at 03:15 AM Author Report Posted Friday at 03:15 AM As in the two pages above too, the MCI seems to have more detail. 1 Quote
PietroParis Posted Friday at 09:52 AM Report Posted Friday at 09:52 AM On dating I would trust Ueda, who had access to documents such as temple registers, more than Meinertzhagen who relied on stylistic considerations. So I would take the 1907 death at face value. Either for some reason Kohosai stopped working for the last 30 years of his life, or Meinertzhagen places him a bit too early (note that Davey says late 19C). 1 Quote
Matsunoki Posted Friday at 10:04 AM Report Posted Friday at 10:04 AM 9 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said: Too badly damaged to be repaired, missing a hand, but plenty here to enjoy! Not true Piers. I could have carved a hand hiding the spliced and pegged joint in a crack similar to those just above the break😊 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Friday at 10:07 AM Author Report Posted Friday at 10:07 AM Now you tell me Colin! 1 Quote
Rivkin Posted Sunday at 02:02 AM Report Posted Sunday at 02:02 AM Took the plunge without knowing anything about the subject. Because why read books? Quote
Rivkin Posted Sunday at 02:02 AM Report Posted Sunday at 02:02 AM No idea what I bought... makes me feel like an average forum poster! 1 Quote
Rivkin Posted Sunday at 02:04 AM Report Posted Sunday at 02:04 AM Looks cool though. Need to make better pictures when I can.... Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted Sunday at 02:32 AM Author Report Posted Sunday at 02:32 AM Kirill, the first one has all the marks of a late 1800s Meiji okimono, the central nerve channel being used to pay lip-service to netsuke. Good work, the artist was possibly a netsuke carver first before the end of the Bakumatsu and changes in fashions. The second one (stork?) is hard to make out; if it is not resin it could well be a legit boxwood netsuke. The third one, bamboo shoot and toads(?) gives indications of later Chinese work, the signature written typically in a ‘casual’ manner to suggest Japanese, but not. 2 Quote
Rivkin Posted Sunday at 05:20 AM Report Posted Sunday at 05:20 AM (edited) 3 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said: The third one, bamboo shoot and toads(?) gives indications of later Chinese work, the signature written typically in a ‘casual’ manner to suggest Japanese, but not. Thank you, I need to do better shots, Edited Sunday at 05:42 AM by Rivkin Quote
Rivkin Posted Sunday at 05:21 AM Report Posted Sunday at 05:21 AM (edited) Dutch? Mongol? Edited Sunday at 05:47 AM by Rivkin Quote
Rivkin Posted Sunday at 05:22 AM Report Posted Sunday at 05:22 AM (edited) This one does feel old. Edited Sunday at 05:45 AM by Rivkin Quote
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