Netsuke Central

[PietroParis]

On 11/29/2025 at 3:55 PM, John C said:

3. Arrow at left top shows that the himotoshi are the same size, which is also common on fakes (one should be bigger to accomodate the knot in the cord)

4. Arrow at the bottom is to indicate that the "signature" is only roughly Japanese, which again, is common on fakes. Real netsuke are only occasionally signed and it is done very artistically. 

 

To be fair, this isn't entirely true. Many genuine netsuke (especially later ones from the 19th century) have cord holes of the same size. Also, signatures were uncommon on earlier netsuke, but became more and more common in later times, and while some of them were indeed artistically made, others were just cursive scribbles. Check out these reference books for examples of both kinds:

 

https://archive.org/search?query=lazarnick

 

[John C]

This is why I have never purchased a netsuke. I have read 3 different books and still can't tell the difference between real and fake. Back to the drawing board....

 

John C.

[PietroParis]

50 minutes ago, John C said:

This is why I have never purchased a netsuke. I have read 3 different books and still can't tell the difference between real and fake. Back to the drawing board....

Well you did accurately tell that the one posted here is fake. My point is that all the “rules” you can think of have exceptions, but after you have seen (and possibly handled) hundreds of genuine pieces the fake ones will just seem obvious to you.

 

(Note that I’m talking about tourist trinkets here, sophisticated forgeries are a different matter).

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

You need to spend quality time looking through collections, at photos in books, in museums (Pietro has a huge list of links) or/and in direct handling sessions.

 

Gradually you will begin to ‘see’ with your own eyes what original Netsuke were.

 

As with Nihonto, you need to see many good blades in order to develop an eye. It is hard to make progress looking only at poor quality blades.

 

PS And some Netsuke I see are still borderline for me… i.e. very difficult to judge.

[John C]

I've come across two of these things now labeled as "netsuke or sagemono ornamentation." Does anyone know how they were used? (third pic is the back side of pic 1)

Seems like a handle of some sort.

 

John C.

Edited Tuesday at 05:41 AM by John C
added info

[Bugyotsuji]

Sadly no, John. I have seen many of them in different shapes, usually with that straight-cut piece(?) missing. Some kind of whistle I used to think, but no-one has yet provided a satisfactory answer. Can anyone help?

[Matsunoki]

Never seen one in 40+ years. Shape would suggest stag antler and my guess would also be whistle. Possibly a hawking whistle?

[John C]

I agree that it is antler. Doesn't seem like it could whistle with such a large opening.

A powder horn attachment of some type? 

 

John C.

[Matsunoki]

Hmmm…whistles do have large openings…see below.

. Wonder if the smaller holes vary the pitch/tone/note like a flute? 
Pure guesswork though!

[John C]

Just to add one more pic for identification, all of these (found 3 so far) have nearly identical holes including a large openning at the bottom. All listed as netsuke. But I don't think any one of the sellers has a clue what it is. I've seen similar items as pipes and powder flasks, though without the large openning. 

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

Ultimately almost anything could have been used as a Netsuke, including fishing net weights. I have several primitive objects which were probably used that way.

 

These are the only stag antler bits here at the moment, from my odds ‘n ends box, but one has that straight-cut section. Some may be Ainu work.

 

 

and over

 

 

[ROKUJURO]

21 hours ago, John C said:

.....But I don't think any one of the sellers has a clue what it is......

To me, they look like somewhat distorted interpretations of SEN no RIKYU's famous bamboo HANAIRE (one of them being called "ONJÔJI")

[ROKUJURO]

Piers,

one of the small items shown in your last photos could also be such a "HANAIRE", made from the foot of a big bamboo, now interpreted in bone.

[John C]

A snaphaunce tinder box on ebay. Seller says it's brass and wants 2,400 dollars! Aren't most of these made from iron? Photos are just dark and blurry enough to obscure details. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/127535806287

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

Why didn’t I think of that!?
Here’s one I made!

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

John, there were both brass and iron, and some silver.

 

One came up at auction some years back and I stopped bidding at £600…

They have shot up in value.

[John C]

5 hours ago, ROKUJURO said:

SEN no RIKYU's famous bamboo HANAIRE

Jean:

Were they meant to hold water? The top of the pieces certainly look like a hanaire but these don't have bottoms and wouldn't hold water.

John C.

[John C]

Piers:

I would love to have one but this is too rich for my blood. The bad pictures and use of the word "minty" to describe it gives me pause in any case.

 

John C.

[ROKUJURO]

John,

these HANAIRE were not meant to hold water. As far as I know from more recent pieces, a container was made/soldered from tin or copper to fit into it.
You can stand them upright (then they don't even need a closed bottom) or hang them on a nail.

Many years ago I got my hands on big bamboo and made one myself for IKEBANA. I always dreamt of having a TOKONOMA..... 

Piers, your HANAIRE is nice! Is that a Camellia flower in it?

[Bugyotsuji]

21 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

John,

these HANAIRE were not meant to hold water. As far as I know from more recent pieces, a container was made/soldered from tin or copper to fit into it.
You can stand them upright (then they don't even need a closed bottom) or hang them on a nail.

Many years ago I got my hands on big bamboo and made one myself for IKEBANA. I always dreamt of having a TOKONOMA..... 

Piers, your HANAIRE is nice! Is that a Camellia flower in it?

Correct, they usually have a small vase or container inside.

Jean, I know camellia were considered unlucky by some, but we can do azaleas too! 

Oh, and create that tokonoma!!! 

 

[ROKUJURO]

Very beautiful!

I'm also thinking of TSUBAKI SANJURO....

[John C]

Just heard back from the seller on the bone hanaire. He says it is indeed the shape of a hanaire but believes it is a netsuke representation due to its size (about 8cm long).

 

John C.

[Bugyotsuji]

Antler (also ivory, and to a lesser extent bone) was often fashioned to look like bamboo.