Sebuh Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 Hey everyone was browsing Jauce, saw this. Anyone know the story behind this? Still relatively new to the hobby and is shopping around, thanks. https://www.jauce.com/auction/b1114453731 Quote
nulldevice Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 These swords are never real. There is always a story about a wartime bring back that has been just recently uncovered and now is available on the market in Japan without any modern papers. If a real Masamune were to show up in Japan, it would be sent to the NBTHK and paper, and it would make waves in the sword community. The seller removes themselves from all responsibility in the ad: Quote (First of all, swords are a personal hobby. The sword I am putting up for sale this time is without a doubt the best sword I have seen out of the hundreds I have seen. Real? Fake? You can't really tell... Quote
Lewis B Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 25 minutes ago, Sebuh said: Hey everyone was browsing Jauce, saw this. Anyone know the story behind this? Still relatively new to the hobby and is shopping around, thanks. https://www.jauce.com/auction/b1114453731 Saw one of those 'Masamune' in the Samurai Museum in Berlin. It was clearly not a Masamune and the name was typed in exclamation marks to confirm its dubious attribution. That 'Masamune' has been up for sale for donkeys years waiting for a donkey to buy it. The Steyr Museum has a bring back Masamune from the 19th century. They are convinced its genuine but its quite clearly not. The majority if not all the big name attributions are gimei. As some have said, Japan was not in the habit of giving gaijin top tier makers prior to Compton. 1 1 Quote
Brian Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 It has a fairly recent professional polish, so you can be sure it has been submitted and failed. Other than the mei, nice looking sword though. Quote
Lewis B Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 4 minutes ago, Brian said: It has a fairly recent professional polish, so you can be sure it has been submitted and failed. Other than the mei, nice looking sword though. I'm highly suspicious of the 'utsuri'. Andrew Ickeringill brought these artificial utsuri effects by unscrupulous sellers to light some years ago. The blade might have been acid etched as the features look rather forced and unnatural, at least from these photos. Worth bumping for all the new members 1 Quote
Sebuh Posted April 28 Author Report Posted April 28 thanks everyone! appreciate the insights. Glad to be a member of the forums, been browsing for awhile without an account, glad I pulled the plug and made one. Thank you. Quote
Rivkin Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 Unfortunately this guy takes not bad to actually good shinshinto and later blades, etches utsuri, signs kimpun mei and then sells them as ichimonji or masamune. He has been doing this for years. 1 Quote
Brano Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 2 hours ago, Lewis B said: The majority if not all the big name attributions are gimei. As some have said, Japan was not in the habit of giving gaijin top tier makers prior to Compton. How can you describe an attribution as gimei? If a blade has an attribution, it means it is a mumei (it can have Kinzoganmei/Shumei...) Maybe I misunderstood your statement - you mean that all/most blades attributed to the best swordsmiths in Western collections are not what Shinsa says? Quote
Lewis B Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 2 hours ago, Brano said: How can you describe an attribution as gimei? If a blade has an attribution, it means it is a mumei (it can have Kinzoganmei/Shumei...) Maybe I misunderstood your statement - you mean that all/most blades attributed to the best swordsmiths in Western collections are not what Shinsa says? Some of the blades in the Albrecht von Roretz collection have Mei. And some of these have been examined in hand by an expert and all those blades were deemed gimei by the expert (there is a signed Yukihira tanto and a Sadamune katana for example). Of course, I wouldn't be saying all big names in Western collections are similarly questionable, just that many of those swords that left the country in the 19th and early 20th century (as gifts, purchases by wealthy collectors, often purchased through unscrupulous middlemen etc) are not what they purport to be. https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/49787-today-is-a-red-letter-day-a-personal-audience-with-the-albrecht-masamune/#findComment-518658 Quote
nulldevice Posted April 28 Report Posted April 28 2 hours ago, Lewis B said: I'm highly suspicious of the 'utsuri'. Andrew Ickeringill brought these artificial utsuri effects by unscrupulous sellers to light some years ago. The blade might have been acid etched as the features look rather forced and unnatural, at least from these photos. Worth bumping for all the new members I had a similar thought. The utsuri seemed to pop too much in the photos and looked painted on to me. Quote
Schneeds Posted April 29 Report Posted April 29 13 hours ago, nulldevice said: These swords are never real. There is always a story about a wartime bring back that has been just recently uncovered and now is available on the market in Japan without any modern papers. If a real Masamune were to show up in Japan, it would be sent to the NBTHK and paper, and it would make waves in the sword community. The seller removes themselves from all responsibility in the ad: One thing I've always wondered, let's say an unthinkable number of stars aligned and a savy collector actually managed to find a Masamune from an estate sale of wartime bring backs here in the States, and sent it in for papers.... would they get it back? Lol. Quote
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