Matsunoki Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Some exceptional cloisonne and Meiji metalwork in this upcoming sale…… https://www.bonhams....eased-estate/?page=4 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissakai Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Eye candy for me as prices are well out of my meager means 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Certainly some mouthwatering pieces there. if only I'd won the lottery, as there are some superb okimono there. I particulary like the crabs. I can remember Mike Dean showing me an absolutely stunning Myochin Munesuke okimono crab. It was absolutely exquisite! Thankyou for posting that Colin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Keeping my hands strictly in my pockets - there are some lovely things here. Inspiration for things to make, though :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 22 Author Report Share Posted April 22 Over the last few years prices for the very best Meiji works (and some older art) have skyrocketed driven probably by a realisation of just how unbelievably wonderful they are and how cheap they (still) are compared to many other works of art. It’s like “the penny has finally dropped”…doubly so for the finest metalwork. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 Not sure about the crabs, but I certainly have a desire to make a crayfish or lobster. Not sure if I'd make it in iron and russet it, or make it in copper, both have their merits, though I guess that iron would be the most traditional. Perhaps that will be my winter project for next year. Another little masterpiece that Mike Dean showed me was a little beetle. All the legs etc moved and it was absolutely stunning, but when you pulled the shell apart two little laquer wings emerged. Simply unbelievable workmanship. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 22 Author Report Share Posted April 22 21 minutes ago, The Blacksmith said: Not sure if I'd make it in iron and russet it, or make it in copper Hi Russ Making such a thing is way beyond my abilities but if I could do it, russet iron would be my choice. The market is awash with poor and cheaply made copper jobbies. I’m not saying yours would be poor or cheap….. just that iron would be far far more distinctive and uncommon. Over the years I have restored many articulated crabs, crayfish, lobsters, dragons etc but they were either ivory or boxwood….and that was bad enough. Making those elements in iron……hats off! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 22 Report Share Posted April 22 @Matsunoki Colin, people tend to shy away from metal, but if you can use tools, as you obviously do, and have the eye, then metal is really no different from wood or bone or any other material.. Yes, there are different techniques to learn, but that is the fun bit! The only time that it scared me was the first time that I worked in gold, that was different ! I was only thinking that it was hundreds of pound worth of material in my hands, and I was scared of damaging it! However, after I convinced myself that it was just another piece of metal, it was a piece of cake. Try working some copper first, and then progress. Metal is fun, and maybe you'll find another outlet for your skills and talents. Maybe I'll try and amass some pictures of crayfish etc, and then have a go during the winter. Unfortunately, my skills are very limited, I can copy many things, but have almost never had an original idea in my life. So show me a picture of something and I'll have a go, but ask me to design something and it is a lost cause! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 22 Author Report Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, The Blacksmith said: but if you can use tools, Sadly Russ my thumb joints are too damaged from years of carving. But it was enormously enjoyable. My wife used to frequently utter the words “are you ever coming out of that workshop?” 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 That's tragic Colin, but something that I can only too well understand. After nearly fifty years of hammering metal the body is suffering somewhat. For me, this is why perhaps making an okimono would be a nice little 'sit down job'! I can all to well understand your wife's comments too, sometimes we are just having too much fun in the workshop, and time just runs away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 Morning @The Blacksmith Russ, while you were hammering, and purely for interest, the tusk vases in this link were the type of things I was restoring. I bought these as total wrecks from Paul Peters in Harrogate years ago. They had massive sections of inlay missing…at least 50% of both eagles, large areas of tree trunks, god knows how many leaves and flowers. The stands were in pieces and they were filthy. But they were obviously superb. Using exactly the correct shells etc they took me months to finish. I sold them to Kevin Page in London and since then they have obviously changed hands again prior to this auction. They are probably the pieces I am most proud of. Please note what the auctioneers say about their condition!, Apologies for letting my ego out🙂 https://www.zacke.at...tands/?lot=2676&sd=1 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 @Matsunoki Absolutely stunning work Colin ! A real labour of love I think. Unfortunately, as is usual, it quite probably wasn't you who stood to get the most reward out of your excellent craft and dedication! Did you by anychance take any before and during pictures while you were restoring these? Regrettably, I have rarely done so, and that is something that I greatly regret now. All too often, especially when I have been in a rush to deliver something, I haven't even taken photos of the finished item. Awesome work Colin, and something to be extremely proud of! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 3 hours ago, The Blacksmith said: Did you by anychance take any before and during pictures while you were restoring these? Regrettably, I have rarely done so, and that is something that I greatly regret now. All too often, especially when I have been in a rush to deliver something, I haven't even taken photos of the finished item. Russ, no I hardly ever took “before” images☹️. Yes, I also really regret it☹️Never took “during” pictures either and hardly ever took “finished” pictures☹️ I could kick myself, my wife always said that I should. Thankfully I was adequately rewarded for my labours…..worked (purely as a hobby) for the major London dealers….but I never begrudged them their profits…..they had the worlds super rich as their customers….i didn’t. I really miss all that but when the Ivory ban came along the whole game changed but it coincided with my hands worsening so “that was that”. Great times If I can ask, what was your “line of work”? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Although I both repair and make things, it is on a self-taught and very limited level. Love watching others work, ...something about the concentration (?), and I kind of wish I had devoted my life to working artistically with my hands. I have kept a partial photographic record for my own satisfaction, though, but it's tons of photos for each object and I am not very organized. Fascinating subject. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 @Matsunoki Sorry if this is a bit off topic mods, but this was the sort of thing that I used to do..... Rough and clumsy compared to Colins exquisite handiwork, but great fun to do nevertheless! Basically, if I can hit it, I can possibly make it! A Roman helmet type C made for Harlow Museum, unfortunately the picture was taken after two school classes had handled it! A copy of the saxon 'Pioneer' helmet. Made from a sketch in the Independant newspaper, but which proved to be surprisingly accurate! When I was living in England I repaired quite a few antiques of various types for dealers, including repairing items of Japanese armour from time to time. 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 No that really is wonderful work Russ! Ian Bottomley once showed me sets of tools, shaped anvils, armour making equipment etc., in a work room at the Leeds Royal Armouries Museum, which had originally come from the Tower of London. (Or Greenwich perhaps?) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 I have spent some time in the workshops at the Tower of London. A wonderful experience for anybody remotely interested in armour. Ted smith (The head armourer there at the time) kindly showed me on one occasion a beautiful pair of mitten gauntlets, and a superb locking gauntlet.........................all of which just happened to have belonged to King Henry VIII ! The workshops at The Tower of London were in the same building as the New Armouries, that housed the Japanese and oriental collections. As you say, some of the tools are believed to have come from the Royal Workshops at Greenwich. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 Russ, I love just about anything well hammered from iron…..your pieces are beautiful. There is something undefinably powerful hidden within. Heat, flames, sparks, noise……..apart from power hammers I guess not much has changed for hundreds of years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 The thing that amazes me Colin, is the skill with which the armourers of old managed to make such compound shapes, which today, while difficult enough to do in the traditional manner, are cosiderably easier given the homogenous state of modern smelted and rolled metals, ie. no slag inclusions. Some recent studies in armour metalurgy, have shown some armour ranges from almost pure iron to high carbon steel in just a few centimetres. This must have made forging plates extremely difficult, and the hardening process, where used, perhaps even more so. A true tour de force, made in 1543 by Filipo Negroli of Milan. This is all one piece of metal! Such superb mastery of his material is simply breathtaking. Perhaps the nearest in Japanese metalworking was Myochin Muneakira, who is known to have made somen in one piece! He was extremely adept at repousé. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 Truly mind boggling. What else can you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 Actually there is something else to say. Imo ability like that cannot be fully taught. At that level it is a gift, a talent that is so rare. A bit like the difference between a good Japanese smith and a genius smith. Something indefinable that sets them apart and no matter how they try, few pupils can ever match them. It is true genius….almost mystical. I often look at the best Japanese metalwork and think, how the hell did they do that? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 I absolutely agree Colin. There are exceptional craftsmen, and then there are the truly exceptional craftsmen, those with that little extra, divine gift if you will. The Negroli brothers were certainly amongst the latter. The thing that astounds me,with Japanese craftsmen was their ability to cut extremely fine cuts in metal, Today, we have piercing saw blades that will do it, but what did they use in the 15th and 16th century? What, how? What is so astounding with the Negroli, as evidenced here, is not only their absolute mastery over their tools and materials, but thei exquisite mastery of form. Note the way the muscles of Medusa show at the sides, and the delicate way that the breasts on the upturned figure hang slightly inverted. It is absolutely exquisite workmanship, on all levels. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 3 hours ago, Matsunoki said: ……..apart from power hammers I guess not much has changed for hundreds of years? Actually Colin, they had power happers back in the day, this was one of the reasons that certain workshops were situated where they were, fast flowing rivers to power hammers. An abundance of trees for charcoal and of course iron was also usually required if possible. Nes jernverk in Tvedestrand in Norway still have trip hammers that date back to the 1600's, and these are still used every year in demonstrations. 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 Some years ago I bought an iron mask at Olympia militaria. For a small horse or a large dog (?), I never did find out. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 I don't suppose you have a picture of that on file do you Piers? Certainly in Europe, after the age of about eight, children of noble rank would have had a small horse, and that probably had armour too. It is thought that children as young as three would have had armour so that they could get used to the weight and the heat of it. At eight they would begin armoured horsemanship, and by about fourteen or fifteen, they were adults and took their place in the line of battle. Edward of Woodstock, the famous Black Prince 1330-1376, was only sixteen when he commanded a wing of the English army in the thick of it at the Battle of Crecy. So it was necessary for young nobles to get acquainted with arms and armour at an early age. So perhaps a small horses head (Chanfron) is possible. Dogs too had some armour, both for war and for hunting, though this is extremely rare. The other possibility is that during the 19th century there was a huge revival of all things medieval, and many extremely good items were made, and antiqued, to satisfy the market greedy for such historic artifacts. Many large collections were formed at this time and Pratt, Pigeon, Bacheraux and Schmidt were famous producers and suppliers of these items, many of which have fooled collectors and museums. Many of the items are beautifully made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 Hang on then, I'll try and source a pic, Russ. (Probaby the latter, though...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 Wonderful, I'd love to see it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 The side plates are loosely held by simple rings. (Matchbox for size comparison) Reverse 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blacksmith Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 Awesome, thank you very much for that Piers, that is much appreciated. A chanfron (horses head) A modern made one though ! Miniature armour of all types is quite popular, as well as great fun to make. This is also how many people learn the various techniques needed to make armour. as it is much easier and cheaper in miniature. On full size chanfrons, or ones intended for use, the side panels are usually held by hinges, this makes it more secure, but also cuts down on noise, which helps to save the horse from getting scared. It takes quite a time to get a horse used to the noise of a man in armour, and even longer if the horse is wearing it too! Thank you again! On the subject of childrens armour, here is a childs armour that I have been making. Greenwich style, ca. 1590-1600. Here is a another view of it, in a much earlier state of completion, with a visiting school class. Note the teacher who is struggling to hold it! It weighs 9kgs (19.8lbs) and this is only a half armour down to the waist, as at this age , about 6yo, they were too young to have a horse, and thus didn't need legs for the armour. This is about the correct weight for an armour of this type and period. It is possibky half the boys own body weight! Just thought this might be of some interest. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugyotsuji Posted April 25 Report Share Posted April 25 Thanks so much for the information Russ. I had given up on ever finding out what it was, and while reading this thread I suddenly remembered it and thought that you might be the very man to help! Quite topical with the Guards' horses bolting through London yesterday! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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