Gunto tassel placement.

[george trotter]

The gunto tassel (icho) is of interest to collectors. Usually they hang from the sarute or a wire loop or cord loop from the kabuto gane of the hilt, but I have seen a number placed differently.

On the other side of this site (Nihonto), there is a post by seanh dated July 18, which shows a pic of a tassel wrapped around the leather covered civilian scabbard, apparently suspended from the scabbard loop (which on a gunto koshirae would be the ashi ring). A contributor to the thread notes this tassel as indicating WWII use, but notes "...the tassel is not where it is supposed to be", meaning I think that it should be hanging from the hilt loop.

He is correct of course, but I would just like to comment that I have seen a number of gunto that have their tassel hanging from the ashi ring on the scabbard. These swords were obtained that way directly from the soldier who brought them back from WWII. I naturally thought they were wrong (tied on incorrectly by the allied soldier himself) but, I have also seen them tied this way in a number of WWII photos of Japanese soldiers, taken in the field.

I speculate , but it seems that some officers moved the tassel to the scabbard when in combat, and these appear on a few swords captured there (rather than those surrendered formally at official surrender ceremonies where things returned to formal procedures).

So, I think those swords that have their tassel on the scabbard may well be battlefield captures and are thus "battlefield correct".

What does the forum think?

Regards,

George Trotter

[Weidas]

in all resources i was able to find - internet, books of R.Fuller&R.Gregory, J.Dowson, i saw only tassels hanging from sarute or from loop, or just fixed at the end of tsuka(R.Fuller&R.Gregory "Military swords of Japan 1868 - 1945"), but i never noticed tassels hanging from scabbard. Maybe i just missed. My opinion is that according to regulations, tassels were supposed to hang from sarute, however, people are always people , everyone with his own attitude and character and therefore exceptions were always possible. but as individuals, not as regulations.

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

Just speculation too :

I already saw some gunto whom cord's sarute was broken, so it can explain a tassel hang in the saya ring.

The explanation of the battlefield use was plausible, because, by this way, the tassel was on the scarbar and not on the sword. It does not interfere with the movements of the sword in combat.

 

Sebastien

[loiner1965]

was told years ago that the soldier tied it on the loop for parade and official functions but wrapped it around the saya and ashi when in combat as its more functional that way

[Weidas]

sounds logical

[george trotter]

Yes, combat use sounds most logical, it would not get in the way on the scabbard. I also remember that in the photos I saw of the tassel on the scabbard, the soldier was in field uniform, with binoculars, and various pieces of equipment visible. I never saw the tassel there in "formal" photos.

 

I suppose it is not really important, but next time I come across a tassel on the scabbard, I think I'll leave it there instead of moving it to the hilt. If I remember where I saw the photos I'll post the source.

Regards,

George Trotter

[george trotter]

I remembered two pics...see plate 67 in Fuller & Gregory "Military Swords of Japan" and page 49 of Fuller & Gregory "Military and Civil swords of Japan". These both show swords surrendered with the tassel attached to the scabbard. I have seen other pics, but can't remember where.

Hope this helps,

George Trotter.

[loiner1965]

I remembered two pics...see plate 67 in Fuller & Gregory "Military Swords of Japan" and page 49 of Fuller & Gregory "Military and Civil swords of Japan". These both show swords surrendered with the tassel attached to the scabbard. I have seen other pics, but can't remember where.

Hope this helps,

George Trotter.

like me george i think its old age :D ...concentrate on finding more info on that silly kokuin on my kanetoshi which is being polished as we speak

[george trotter]

Hi Steve,

I saw another sword this morning, tassel on the ashi ring again. This sword was given to a witness at the Tokyo War Crimes trials in 1946. It must have been like this at that time also.

 

As for your kokuin, I will keep an eye open for it...it does look familiar, but then, we have all seen a fair few kokuin with ken shaped stamps....

Regards,

George.