Quality of newly made armour?

[mas4t0]

I'm curious how newly made armour compares to historical examples in terms of craftsmanship. I'm fond of this armour and would appreciate any opinions on it. I'm not expecting it to compare favourably with the original, but how does it compare to an antique example in the same price bracket?

 

I'm limiting myself to contemporary pieces as I would like to display it and I feel an aversion to keeping antiques on display at home. Are there any highly regarded contemporary makers of menpō, kabuto, kote, etc?

 

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

[YOJIMBO]

wrong forum

 

[mas4t0]

3 hours ago, YOJIMBO said:

wrong forum

 

 

Really, how so?

 

Quote

 

Katchu

For the discussion of Japanese armor and related subjects

 

 

Surely Japanese armour is Japanese armour whether antique or contemporary (as with nihonto and tosogu)? Could you please elaborate on why this post is inappropriate here?

 

I would prefer to find a company (or preferably individual artisans) making original works to the same standard as antique examples. There are contemporary makers of nihonto and tosogu who's work compares favourably with antiques, so why would it necessarily be different with armour?

 

If it's the wrong forum, I apologise and I'd appreciate it if this thread could be moved or deleted as appropriate.

[uwe]

Hi Mark,

 

I hesitated to give an opinion cos when it comes to contemporary (modern made) Japanese armor there is a remarkable gap of knowledge with me. Who comes in mind is Michael Asterita from “Iron Mountain”, for example. One of a few people who may could help you with this task?!

Anyway, if you like it traditionally made with the same standards and quality as in Edo times, you probably won’t find somebody…..at least not for affordable costs, I guess.

 

As a side note, at the price of the armor you posted above, you can fairly get an historical set!

[mas4t0]

Thank you Uwe, I'll check out Michael's work.

 

I'm not so much concerned about cost, I'm not looking at new armour to save money.

 

My wife is very sensitive to odours, to the point where I have to replace vintage tsuba boxes with new ones. I'm guessing that vintage armour will have an odour and I'm concerned of the home being a poor conservation environment.

 

Can vintage armour be cleaned and restored in such a way as to remove odours without doing harm? Are such services available and considered acceptable or is this considered poor conservation practice?

 

Would it be reasonable to restore an antique armour to "like new" condition (using the services of appropriate professionals), as with sending a sword for polish or having tosogu repatinated; or is generally considered good practice to leave them showing their age?

 

I think I'm grappling with the Ship of Theseus problem and I'm wondering where others stand on it. Is it (for instance) acceptable to have the silk replaced and other age related damage repaired on an antique armour?

[mas4t0]

Would it be fair to assume that is best approach would be to seek out antique examples and store them behind glass?

[Chris Colman]

Have a look at "Begin Japanpology -Armour" on Youtube.

I saw a modern O Yoroi in the Tokyo National Museum in Ueno Park a few years ago, if it was good enough to display there i imagine it was of suitable quality.

i dont remember who made it, there are a few people specialising in traditionally made armour.

regards

chris colman

[mas4t0]

1 minute ago, Chris Colman said:

Have a look at "Begin Japanpology -Armour" on Youtube.

I saw a modern O Yoroi in the Tokyo National Museum in Ueno Park a few years ago, if it was good enough to display there i imagine it was of suitable quality.

i dont remember who made it, there are a few people specialising in traditionally made armour.

regards

chris colman

 

Thanks Chris, I'll take a look.

[Jon Masutatsu]

Hi Mark,

 

If you want a quality restoration performed

on antique Japanese armour , please contact David Thatcher at his UK based Koubou. https://yoroi.uk/

Dave works only with traditional materials.

 

Jon.

[uwe]

“Ship of Theseus”, it couldn’t be better described Mark!

There are different approaches when it comes to restoration/preservation…..already (and repeatedly) discussed until exhaustion….

 

The display case variant is a good idea. It allows you to control humidity and temperature more properly and it will protect your wife from the smell 

 

Yes, there are some newly made “replacement armors” (copies of important pieces) in shrines and museums. But that is another story…
Maybe one example. Nishioka Fumio (and his workshop) once produced a reproduction of the “Akaito Odoshi Yoroi” (National treasure of Musashi Mitake Shrine) for the Ōme City Folk Museum. It took him 3 and a half years and he didn’t work on it alone!

 

[mas4t0]

4 hours ago, Jon Masutatsu said:

Hi Mark,

 

If you want a quality restoration performed

on antique Japanese armour , please contact David Thatcher at his UK based Koubou. https://yoroi.uk/

Dave works only with traditional materials.

 

Jon.

 

Thank you for the information.

 

Reading through his site gives me some clarity on armour related conservation practices too. It's reassuring to know that these services are available locally in the UK.

[mas4t0]

11 hours ago, uwe said:

There are different approaches when it comes to restoration/preservation…..already (and repeatedly) discussed until exhaustion….

 

Thank you for letting me know. I'll spend some time reading though past threads.

 

11 hours ago, uwe said:

The display case variant is a good idea. It allows you to control humidity and temperature more properly and it will protect your wife from the smell 

 

I agree that would be the best approach.

 

11 hours ago, uwe said:

Yes, there are some newly made “replacement armors” (copies of important pieces) in shrines and museums. But that is another story…
Maybe one example. Nishioka Fumio (and his workshop) once produced a reproduction of the “Akaito Odoshi Yoroi” (National treasure of Musashi Mitake Shrine) for the Ōme City Folk Museum. It took him 3 and a half years and he didn’t work on it alone!

 

This is exactly the information I was hoping for. My intuition was that much of the high end armour is somewhat undervalued and likely couldn't be reproduced today (with traditional methods) for a similar price. I'll be researching Nishioka Fumio over the coming days to try and guage the cost of a commission. I understand of course that it'll be far higher than the example linked above.

 

Thank you for helping me find my footing, I greatly appreciate it.

[mas4t0]

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/akaito-odoshi-yoroi-armour-laced-with-red-thread-nishioka-fumio/XgHdL1KHu7fPeQ

 

 

What would we guess the cost of a commission such as this? Are there any pricing details for Nishioka Fumio San's work?

 

I'm assuming it compares reasonably favourably to the original on which its based, and given the stated time taken to craft it, I'm assuming the cost would be somewhere in the region of ¥50,000,000.

[uwe]

I see you found it Mark 👍

Unfortunately, I know nothing about the costs….

[mas4t0]

2 minutes ago, uwe said:

I see you found it Mark 👍

Unfortunately, I know nothing about the costs….

Thank you for all your help, I really do appreciate it.