Koto Blades - Trivia Explanations

[ken kata]

Good Morning to you  all...  from a quiet, peaceful Sunday Morning in Hawaii  

 

I was reading one of my favorite Thread on NMB" ,  "What Makes Koto Swords So Desirable"  , and,

 Chris H. posted these interesting " Tongue and Cheek " nuggets   ( Thanks Chris) 

Being ignorant,  ( rather than being  arrogant ) for my level of Nihonto knowledge,  I thought it was humorous  .

But,  " My ignorance caused me problems, again      " ...

May I please ask...

Can someone tell the history/facts of each of these " Nuggets " ?

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Some nuggets: 

1. Late Muromachi, Seki methods spread and dominate during Shinto times, leading to loss of school-level variations. 
2. Brief Momoyama effort to resurrect the old methods, fades quickly. Some of it lives on in Hizen in a parallel universe. 
3. Shinto peace times reinforce the non-utilitarian aspect of swords, craft is driven by fades and fashions which are disconnected from function. 
4. Centralized Tamahagane production leads to loss of regional specificity in iron
5. Reduction in demand for swords during Shinto times leads smashes the right tail of the distribution of geniuses which would have turned grand-masters. 
6. Shinshinto Masahide revival starts from scratch after observations that swords are no longer functional. 
7. Two generation, destruction test on Naotane swords reveal that the Masahide school wasn't successful in returning functionality.  
8. Mozart Kyomaro manages to reproduce some of the beauty of old Koto but then dies young and full of debt.
9. Sword ban strangulates the craft even further...
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[Alex A]

Thats one hell of a request

 

On the subject of Seki into Edo, steel gets better and so does mei, but, lacks so much of the Muromachi.

[ken kata]

Thanks Alex, 

Guys, 

I forgot to mention, it was mainly questions  #'s  1,  2 , 5, 6 and 7.

Like question #2,   ' Some of it lives on in Hizen in a parallel universe. "

Question #5 had, " smashes the right tail of the distribution of geniuses which would have turned grand-masters. "

Question #6,  Suishinshi Masahida Revival ?  Search feature gave me this link: 

https://yakiba.com/tanto-suishinsei-masahide/

 

Question 7    Was it a Split the Kabuto Test? 

 

Question 8   I saw  "Amadeus" .. 

 

Thanks..

Alton

 

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Alton,

The main centres of sword production in the Muromachi period were Bizen and Mino provinces. The popularly held view is that a flood of the Yoshii river in 1590 wiped out a big part of the Bizen production so that when things settled down after Sekigahara many of the remaining smiths had their roots in the Mino tradition and this greatly influenced the sword schools that came into being in the early shinto period. See Markus Sesko's take on the flood thing here: https://markussesko.com/2013/03/12/the-great-flood-of-the-yoshii-river/

 

Their was an antiquarian movement around Keicho which revived the sugata of the nanbokucho period, whether it did or attempted to revive their production methods, is another thing. Certainly the ability to produce swords with utsuri was largely lost. The Satsuma school decided that the Keicho sugata suited their view of what a well-armed samurai should be swinging and they kept with this through to shinshinto times. That's not to say that they never deviated from it, but they were greatly influenced by the Keicho shinto sugata whereas elsewhere things moved on with the other sugata that were adopted in the 17th century.

 

As regards shinto Hizen swords, the core style of the founder of the school, Tadayoshi, was aimed at reproducing the works of the Rai school from the late kamakura and early nanbokucho period and this influenced the works of the later smiths. Swords with elegant sugata, suguba hamon and finely forged ko itame (konuka hada as it became known) predominate.

 

An article here on smith-produced steel in swords which gives a picture of what happened in terms of steel production in the shinto period: https://markussesko.com/2018/09/30/oroshigane-mentioned-in-signatures/

[Gakusee]

1. Start with this:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Study-Japanese-Swords-Chronological-History/dp/1954297254/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=yurie+endo&qid=1629717175&s=books&sr=1-1

 

 

2. Then move to this

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Connoisseurs-Japanese-Swords-Kokan-Nagayama/dp/4770020716

 

3. Then, if you have energy and desire:

 

http://www.shibuiswords.com/kozaAFU.htm

 

 

[ken kata]

Hello ,

Thank you Michael. 

I got Yuri's book on order / in transit. I have the Blue "Connoisseur's' Book and the Red Book  ( Facts and Fundamentals).

Just received both books,  "THE ART OF"  Polishing and Japanese Swords .. Kapp/Yoshihara versions

Markus books in transit.   $$$..

I got  Ian B. and Clive Sinclaire books.

I got a J. Yumoto book, and, it is signed. Y. Kubo / P. Martin Book (signed too ) 

I do read a lot, but, poor Random Access Memory.. 

Not to be or sound arrogant, but reading is passive memory. (No to sound negative, as, it is very important)

I do notice, a lot of times, you guys explain something and I remember reading/seeing  it and now it all falls into place.

( Most times...) 

Recognition and Recall..  Active part of Memorization?  

 

John,  Thanks for the good reading /post.

Lots of the asking , could be related to the things I am going through with this Kanesada Blade I have and am "Going over".

It seems to be Gimei, now.

At first, I thought it was a type of Sanbon-sugi, but, I read about Gunome with Togari-ba. no photos to compare mine to.

then, I read about Gunome-Madare swings on Notare line and has Togari.

Sugata / Sori looks to be Tensho, but, could be Tenna .

Blade seems Mino, but, could be Nara mono from Osafune.. 

Or, Satsuma Shinto smiths started by Ujifusa of Mino. The Tograi lead me to Satsuma.

 

If the blade is Kanesada..

Akasaka Ju Kanesada, Aizu Kanesada in Iwashita, Izumi no Kami Kanesada ( Name change from Kanemoto)

None of their Mei matches the mei on the Blade I have. 

 

Thanks for viewing guys,

Alton 

 

 

[Gakusee]

Well, the blade hamon looks like classic Mino..... 

As to the mei, do not assume that all Kanesada might have been recorded.... This might have been some offshoot or later generation etc. The signature is indeed not a match to the bigger-named Izumi no kami Kunisada.

Books will get you to a point; from there on, it is human interaction, physical handling and experience... But books can definitely explain the tenets posited above.

[ken kata]

Hello Forum/Guys.

John and Michael  , again, thanks  ..

John, 

About the 1591 Yoshii Flood. I did not know the details . Thanks for the link.. 

The flood maps in that link, are known as Flood Inundation Maps.

 

Your 2nd paragraph,  Satsuma Grand  Kei chi Sugata.  Kiechi, in 1596 / deep Sori? I was searching for that part.

 

Paragrph 3 was for this :  ' Some of it lives on in Hizen in a parallel universe. ".. 

 " As regards shinto Hizen swords, the core style of the founder of the school, Tadayoshi, was aimed at reproducing the works of the Rai school from the late kamakura and early nanbokucho period and this influenced the works of the later smiths. Swords with elegant sugata, suguba hamon and finely forged ko itame ( konuka hada as it became known ) predominate. "

Enjoyable post. The attention to detail for your kind of explanation really does paint a better picture.

 

and Thanks Michael.. You guys " Point the Way "..

I read that there was no record for the 5th to the 8th Generation .

And , there was Kazu uchi mono, made/imported  in the "Millions"?

The hamon saved me? 

 

 

Alton 

[ken kata]

" Life is a Fractal"  - Alton 

When I saw "Parallel  Universe ", in his post,  it made me think Chris H had Star Wars in mind.. 

 

 ' Some of it lives on in Hizen in a parallel universe. "   - STAR WARS Episode IV : A NEW HOPE

 

 " Smashes the right tail of the distribution of geniuses ,

which would have turned grand-masters. "  - STAR WARS Episode V : THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK

 

Suishinshi Masahida Revival  -  STAR WARS Episode V! : THE RETURN OF THE JEDI 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Alton,

 

No the Keicho sugata doesn't really have a deep sori. There's an exellent picture that shows the various sugata through the ages side by side but which I can't find right now.

 

Here's an example of a Satsuma blade that shows the sugata: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-houki-kami-ason-masayuki33rd-nbthk-juyo-paper/

 

Darcy's website has some excellent examples of the Nambokucho sugata on which it was based:

 

https://yuhindo.com/hasebe-3/

 

https://yuhindo.com/hoshizukiyo-kencho/

[ken kata]

Hello,

Hi John,

Thanks again. 

For me, this thread had many post that lead to lot of readings that seem to connect,

and form part of the Nihonto world (Blade history and smiths). I enjoyed the articles. Time well spent.

Also, the worn/tired low cost Swords I have must be one of the many made throughout the times.

There was more Kanesada Schools/smiths, too.

Hachiya Kanesada, many Seuseki and Ganmaku School students that many have been Kanesada.. 

 

I was going to try to get the blade "re polished" and into a shirasaya , but,  ....  

I do have other blades to look up and read/learn more.

This post is over..

 

Thanks all .  

Alton

Added :  Ohtani Hits 41st Homerun ..