Long sword mei translation

[Nicholas]

Hi, I have a sword that I would like to know some information on. The cutting edge is 30”. The nakago is signed but seems some of the characters are worn with age. Any information I could learn about this sword would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

[Nicholas]

[Ray Singer]

Echizen (no) kuni ju Shimosaka 

[Nicholas]

Echizen is a place and Shimosaka is a school right?

[Ray Singer]

Please see below. 

 

http://www.sho-shin.com/edo-echizen.html

[Nicholas]

So if the signature is correct this sword could be 1st generation yasutsugu? If I’m understanding this correctly. Sorry if I’m wrong I’m still rather new to this.

[Geraint]

Dear Nicholas.  

 

You are very wise in your statement.  First, as you say there is an 'if' regarding the signature.  False, or to say the least optimistic signatures are common.   Second there are other possibilities in addition to Yasutsugu, have a look at this one.  http://www.nihonto.us/ECHIZEN SHIMOSAKA WAKIZASHI DE.htm

 

You could search for papered examples of swords with this mei and compare but do so with a critical mind, it comes down to the exact formation of the individual kanji and the handwriting, for want of a better term.  Also worth getting in touch with a local sword group if such exists for you, and letting them look at it in hand.

 

In any event it's quite a sword, especially with a nagasa of 30".    Does it have koshirae or is it in shirasaya?

 

Have fun!

 

All the best.

 

[Nicholas]

It seems to be hard to find a signature with these exact characters. Where would be a good place to search. Any books in mind? The sword is in military mounts. Gunto mounts I believe it’s called.

[Jacques]

If my memory is still good,  the swordsmith who's mei is Echizen no kuni ju Shimosaka is Kanesaki the father of shodai Yasutsugu. It seems that shodai Yasutsugu never signed tkat way. 

 

I will check the Yasutsugu taikan to be sure.

[Jacques]

The first oshigata is from the Yasutsugu taikan and said to be a dai saku mono by shodai Yasutsugu for his father.

 

 

 

 

[Jacques]

The second one is from an NBTHK's oshigata book and is attributed to shodai Yasutsugu 

 

I would say the sword discuted here is gimei 

 

 

[Nicholas]

Maybe gimei. But I have to wonder why with a sword this long that must have taken a pretty skilled swordsmith to create. 30” in a rather long sword. Why wouldn’t they sign their name? 

[Jacques]

15 hours ago, Nicholas said:

Maybe gimei. But I have to wonder why with a sword this long that must have taken a pretty skilled swordsmith to create. 30” in a rather long sword. Why wouldn’t they sign their name? 

 

 

 

Do you know what a gimei is ? 

[Geraint]

Dear Nicholas.

 

Once you enter the territory of gimei then there are a whole host of possibilities and in the end none of them matter.   If the sword was by the smith we are discussing then he is a big name, and, as you might expect, his work commands big money.  One option is that the smith who made it did not have a reputation and so was tempted to up his asking price by adding the great name, another is that a later dealer had the same motive and had the name added.  If you read around the area of faking in art generally then one of the most powerful motives is the  grievance that as a maker you do very good work but nobody will pay you what you deserve, instead they throw stupid money at some guy whose work is, in your opinion, no better than yours.  A successful fake gets you decent money and gives you the confirmation that you are as good as the guy with the big name, plus you are smarter than the people buying the stuff.  Financial reward plus a psychological boost, what more could you ask?

 

Now back to your sword.  By any standards a well made Japanese sword is a piece of work.  I would encourage you to show it to some experienced collectors before you do anything about it.  They may think it worth having the mei professionally removed and submitting for papers.  Not easy to tell very much from the pictures but you are on a learning journey and this is a good sword to get you started.  As I said, enjoy.

 

All the best.

[Jacques]

Quote

They may think it worth having the mei professionally removed and submitting for papers

 

 

What is the value of a shinto mumei sword ? 

[Mark]

have not seen in hand but if mounts are decent i would expect to get $1200-1500 for it. Someone might buy it who collects gunto and doesn't care about mei or it could be used in martial arts because of the length.  It will not bring the money a genuine signed blade would but still has value

[Nicholas]

On 4/17/2021 at 6:54 AM, Jacques D. said:

 

 

 

Do you know what a gimei is ? 

I know what gimei is. It’s a false signature. In most cases a big name swordsmith on an average sword to bump up the value. That is not what I am asking. And I am in no way arguing if this signature is legitimate, I am not a professional in any way on the subject. I would think that a sword with a cutting edge of 30” is quite a accomplishment to craft that whoever forged this sword would have been proud enough of their work to put their name on it. 

[Jacques]

18 hours ago, Nicholas said:

. I would think that a sword with a cutting edge of 30” is quite a accomplishment to craft that whoever forged this sword would have been proud enough of their work to put their name on it. 

 

 

Lenght doesn't mean quality.