Does NTHK paper swords with fatal flaws?

[omorik]

Here is a listing for a sword that was sold by a great seller. I have found him to be reliable and a straight shooter.

 

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 0304108536

 

The listing is clear that there is hagire and that there is NTHK paper coming. The photos are great and clearly show the hagire. I thought that "paper" meant that a sword was genuine and did not have fatal flaws.

 

I am just curious what does the paper really mean if they will paper swords with fatal flaws? I didn't even bid on this sword because of the hagire but I can't help but wonder what that sword is really worth. Will they paper swords by exceptional smiths even if there are fatal flaws? There is definitely also value in the fittings - do they justify the selling price?

 

Curious,

 

Omorik

[loiner1965]

i think its acceptable in swords of historical inportance or valuable smiths....

[nihonto1001]

Tegai Kanenaga is a very famous smith. For more info: http://www.nihonto.ca/tegai-kanenaga/

 

Sometimes they will pass a sword based on this alone. In other cases, the sword is papered before it is polished; the hagire is hidden behind rust.

 

Too bad, without fatal flaw, a sword attributed to this smith will pass to Juyo Token wish ease.

 

Jon

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Sometimes they will pass a sword based on this alone. In other cases, the sword is papered before it is polished; the hagire is hidden behind rust.

 

 

It is not the case.

 

There is not reserve price.

And There is NTHK kanteisho paper on sword

NTHK shinsa passed on this month.

Therefor, I don't yet receive paper.

This is Kanenaga of Yamato prefecture.........

Anyway, This sword is interesting good sword.

Condition of Polish is 95%.

 

NTHK or NTHK NPO? that's the question

[nagamaki - Franco]

I am just curious what does the paper really mean if they will paper swords with fatal flaws?

Curious,

 

Omorik

 

It means buy the sword and not the papers.

[benkyoka]

Tegai Kanenaga is a very famous smith. For more info: http://www.nihonto.ca/tegai-kanenaga/

 

Sometimes they will pass a sword based on this alone. In other cases, the sword is papered before it is polished; the hagire is hidden behind rust.

 

Too bad, without fatal flaw, a sword attributed to this smith will pass to Juyo Token wish ease.

 

Jon

 

Huh?! I have what appears to be a koto blade with the mei Kanenaga. Should I hurriedly get my butt over to the next shinsa to have it inspected? Does anyone have any oshigata for this smith so I can compare the workmanship and mei?

[nihonto1001]

Syd:

 

Here you go: http://www.nihonto.com/abtartkanenaga.html

 

Jon

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

i can't see anymore the pictures of this blade, but i dont' think that it's about the kanenaga (kamakura). there was another in Oei (1394) and not so talented, if my memory is good.

[benkyoka]

Syd:

 

Here you go: http://www.nihonto.com/abtartkanenaga.html

 

Jon

 

thanks Jon!

 

What does everyone think about the mei?

 

Perhaps, mine is one of the later Kanenaga who worked more towards the edo period...

[IanB]

Syd, The sharpness of the tagane makura would suggest that your sword is later rather than an old koto blade. Also, the signature differs in that the lower left of the 'kane' character is much more rounded and the left hand elements of 'naga' are differently formed. On balance you appear to have a blade by the later smith.

Ian Bottomley

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

there are incoherences in the description of this blade.

Seller says:

 

This is Kanenaga of Yamato prefecture.

Kanenaga is the famous blacksmith of Yamato.

This sword is typicla sword of Yamato tegai school

 

The famous Kanenaga worked in Shoo (1288)

 

and some lines further:

 

Era : Muromachi first stage era(Oei era, 14 th century,c1394)

 

It should be this one:

 

KANENAGA SUE [ÔEI 1394 YAMATO] SUEKOTÔ CHÛSAKU

There is not even a particle of a shadow of the old Kanenaga, and only the appearance of late Tegai is seen. The work of this last of the Kanenagas was inferior to that of the Tegai of other eras, and there is a great deal of bad taste even in the mei kanji. It cannot be simply said that, "Because the smiths were young, the generation deteriorated".

(Fujishiro)

 

He also says there is a nie utsuri on this blade; i have never heard nie utsuri can be seen on tegai swords.

[Bungo]

back to the original topic........

 

If i am not mistaken, NTHK is more " uptight " about a sword's condition while NBTHK has a " slightly different " critrerion on pass/fail shinsa ?

 

I have seen Kamakura period sword with ha-giri ( 4 or 5 and out of polish too, can't remember ) with NBTHK paper but so far NO NTHK paper on sword with ha-giri.

 

milt

[nihonto1001]

All:

Does anyone have a list of criteria that the NTHK uses to assess swords? I found one for the NBTHK, but not the NTHK.

 

Ironically, I also purchsed a sword on ebay with NTHK papers and a hagire. The seller was not aware of it apparently and refunded my money. Too bad, it was a very nice Wak. I always assumed it must have papered before it was polished.

 

Jon

[Jean]

Milt wrote :

 

I

have seen Kamakura period sword with ha-giri ( 4 or 5 and out of polish too, can't remember ) with NBTHK paper but so far NO NTHK paper on sword with ha-giri.

 

I had (it was sent back to the seller with full refund) a Koto Mino Kanetsune Katana with NTHK kanteisho which, once polished, had 2 hagire.

[John A Stuart]

I am so glad that the seller of your sword, Jean, was an honourable man. John

[Jean]

Thanks John,

 

It proves that nothing is to be taken as granted. Now, e ven papered I don't buy out-of-polish blades for the cost of polishing, shirasaya generally exceed the blade value.