Tsuba With Missing Zogan

[Steves87]

Hello all,

 

I am wondering what the general thought or rule is on the topic of missing inlays.

Usually when considering a new Tsuba I dont mind the occasional missing inlay as Im not buying for perfection or condition, but I prefer the bulk of inlay to be there.

Is there an official standard or percentage of acceptable missing zogan that is 'supposed' to be adhered to or acceptable? Just curious.

 

In light of my preference to minimal missing inlay, I have bought one piece a while back with a lot missing. The leaves and vines im nuetral on, but the 'flowers' (or whats left) for some reason, i had to have.

Personally, I would consider this Tsuba toast, purely for the quantity of what's missing, but, for all I know, it is acceptable.

Can i please have the opinions of others, not specifically for the Tsuba below, but Tsuba generally

Thankyou

 

 

[rkg]

Stephen,

 

The "classic" Japanese point of view (as stated by Torigoye, etc) is that a piece is still "acceptable" with up to 10% of the inlay missing (provided none of the pieces missing is a major design element).  I've never figured out if that is a nod to practicality (early pieces with -all- their zogan are vanishingly rare (unless they've been er, repaired) and usually bring nutty prices) or it is a nod to the wabi aesthetic (I was lucky enough to get to photograph a juyo Onin tsuba that had losses that  made me think about this for a while...).

 

As I've posted here in the past about I think that this aesthetic was a "thing", as I've seen pieces that you -know- were not carried much that have not minor amounts of inlay missing as well as pieces that have been obviously well cared for (and used a lot) that are pushing/are possibly over the 10% number.  I've also seen pieces where there is significant amounts of inlay missing that appear to have either been made without it or it was deliberately removed for aesthetic reasons.

 

There are a couple of other possibilities - a lot of onin/heianjo tsuba have a unique surface that seems -very- prone to rust, so maybe it falls out quickly, maybe its easy to pull out if it catches on something, or it was done for some practical reason (the aforementioned basically unused heianjo tsuba was pretty grippy - it grabbed so many fibers on my glove that the tsuba would almost stick to it, so I could imagine somebody yanking the offending zogan to keep their clothing (or maybe even their hand when in use) from being shredded),

On the other hand, sometimes they would repair the zogan back in the day. For example, I just got this square-ish heianjo zogan tsuba:

 

 

Though it exceeds the 10% limit I thought it would be interesting to study - as an aside, this is a good example of people labeling stuff "christian" in an attempt to move product - the seller claimed this was "Christian" though the piece apparently predates first contact by the Jesuits by a century or so - But I digress...

If you look on the back in the lower right corner, you can see some zogan that doesn't match - I believe this is ato bori as it is different in both design and execution (its the only place where lacquer appears on the tsuba - they sometimes used lacquer to adhere zogan - maybe they did do here, or they did it to "build up" areas of missing iron - here's a pic:

 

 

While its valuable to know these rules of thumb, in the end I think it comes back to what you like personally....

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

[kissakai]

If you like your tsuba then keep it as the design is clearly discernible

I have one with som missing inlay so I'll keep until I see one in better condition to swap/sell it

[Pete Klein]

This one has two old lacquer repairs on the omote.  This is a very old tsuba:

 

[rkg]

This one has two old lacquer repairs on the omote.  This is a very old tsuba:

 

0001abbda.jpg 0001abbdb.jpg

Pete,

 

Great piece!  The repairs are where the missing elements are filled with lacquer, right? 

 

I had a yoshiro piece with several lacquer fills for a while - I don't seem to have a still of the piece handy and I have to go, but its in this video starting at 3:05

 

 

 

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[Steves87]

Thank you Richard,

You have answered my question and given me more!

Is the 'Torigoye' rule of 10% in text that I may be able to find and read? and on potentially written rules, is there an official written list (say in point form) of what collectors should be adhering to? In all my honesty, I likely would ignore the majority of the list, but I would quite like to know the list.

 

Your Tsuba is quite interesting although I have not researched the Christian Tsuba, I cannot see any obvious signs of it being Christian. I have heard of zogan being replaced or fixed in the past, could you please tell me where on the Tsuba your close-up shot is of? Although your Tsuba is missing a bit, I think the sukashi shape itself would be enough for me to personally consider purchasing.

 

In terms of 'major design pieces' I generally get it, but as a check, say you have a tsuba where you have two zogan birds, a large quantity of flowers and a smaller moon/sun. The flowers and birds are the two focal points of the plate but the moon/sun (which is worth 5% total inlay) is missing? Again, sorry, so many questions!

 

Grev, thank you. I will be hanging on to this tsuba a while longer as I have not seen this flower patten previous-or after getting the plate. Its something that has stolen my eye and really makes me wish I could have seen it in all its glory.

 

Pete, thank you also for posting your Tsuba, forgive me as Im not sure, but are the repairs the darker zogan pieces?

Edit: just saw Richards next post

[Steves87]

Great video Richard, Ive only skimmed to 3:05, but ill be checking the whole thing in a while!

[Pete Klein]

Stephen - you are most welcome.  The lacquer fills are close to the hitsuana at ~ 1:30 and 6:30.  They are darker and shiny.  

[Steves87]

Thanks Pete, when I first posted earlier I didnt quite understand, but it totally makes sense now... I didnt realize the lacquer was used as the fill with no soft metal replacement beneath.

 

Untill today, I had no idea of this method of repair. It is great to know though as Im 100% sure I have seen this in the past but overlooked it. I question a lot of things, but I just didnt twig on this.

[rkg]

Steve,

 

It might be in one of his books, but I hear it pretty every time we discuss Heianjo/Onin/etc work at study sessions at Haynes's place - its what Torigoye told him about these/what the Japanese thought (at the time he was studying with him) about them.

 

I believe the seller was trying to hock the "eighty" character set on the front of the piece as Christian. Here's a collage of "probable good" Christian stuff from Japan (with the exception of the iris theme one - I don't really buy that, its here because somebody else called it a hidden Christian symbol - oh, and of course, the modern jesuit symbol):

 

 

 

I'd have to look at the piece again under the microscope to see exactly where, but the image is along the edge of that big fat square inlay in the lower right hand corner on the back.  As an aside, that lacquer is old (from its condition its -maybe- early edo though I think its a fair bit older than that - I recently ended up looking at/microphotographing a fair number of old tsuba to study the lacquer, but I digress).  This is interesting because its a period repair rather than being some modern(ish) restoration...

 

I bought it because it is a good study piece - in the final analysis, it comes down to personal taste - actually one of my favorite tsuba (and probably to prior owners as well as its been re-mounted a LOT) is this piece - and the inlays (circular rings on the riceballs, etc) are looong gone on it:

 

http://www.rkgphotos.com/recent_stuff/riceball_front%281%29/riceball_front%281%29.html?fbclid=IwAR3fm7xYVKqzym98gCrHbOuK_aLzcVBpQxe4lcSb9_E76GPHpjfjQFpGNeM

 

(sorry about not being able to find just an image again :-/)

 

On your question - again,its always nebulous - the "rule" is that up to 10% losses are "acceptable", and they'd REALLY rather not see any major elements being gone (probably the only reason why Pete was able to get that one excellent tsuba he posted earlier...).  The problem here is that often what is good is defined by what us gaijin DO NOT get to see :-/

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

 

 

 

Thank you Richard,
You have answered my question and given me more!
Is the 'Torigoye' rule of 10% in text that I may be able to find and read? and on potentially written rules, is there an official written list (say in point form) of what collectors should be adhering to? In all my honesty, I likely would ignore the majority of the list, but I would quite like to know the list.

Your Tsuba is quite interesting although I have not researched the Christian Tsuba, I cannot see any obvious signs of it being Christian. I have heard of zogan being replaced or fixed in the past, could you please tell me where on the Tsuba your close-up shot is of? Although your Tsuba is missing a bit, I think the sukashi shape itself would be enough for me to personally consider purchasing.

In terms of 'major design pieces' I generally get it, but as a check, say you have a tsuba where you have two zogan birds, a large quantity of flowers and a smaller moon/sun. The flowers and birds are the two focal points of the plate but the moon/sun (which is worth 5% total inlay) is missing? Again, sorry, so many questions!

Grev, thank you. I will be hanging on to this tsuba a while longer as I have not seen this flower patten previous-or after getting the plate. Its something that has stolen my eye and really makes me wish I could have seen it in all its glory.

Pete, thank you also for posting your Tsuba, forgive me as Im not sure, but are the repairs the darker zogan pieces?
Edit: just saw Richards next post

 

[Steves87]

Thanks Richard,

 

Generally I'm viewing these threads on a mobile devise and I sometimes miss or missunderstand key info (like the lacquer infills) due to the size of screen, but this time I have also not noticed the inlay as you point out above, how I missed it I cannot work out, but it is so obvious now. Initially I was thinking it was a partial/half loss of a single inlayed line and so a replacement piece was added in to make up the remainder of what was missing. I couldn't quite understand as I could not see any join, but standing back I see a whole piece was replaced (and maybe not necessarily in the same artistic style) and what you are also indicating is, due to lacquer age, is not a recent fix. Apologies for being so slow on this.

 

I would love to find a study group to join, simple info like the 10% rule would be learnt in no time.

I know of collectors, but I am unaware of any meetings that may take place. I feel a vast majority of my questions would be quickly and simply answered there. There is usually a Nihonto display show once a year here in Perth, which I have missed the past two years (been on while Im away), but hopefully I can attend this year to see what is available to join up to.

 

I have often wondered about the 'Excellent' Tsuba we may not get to see, I can only hope that if we study for long enough, at some point the occasional piece will show itself.

 

also, I quite like the rice bowls Tsuba you have, I am assuming the 'ropes' that finish at an edge on one side, continue to the centre on the other?

 

cheers

[rkg]

Stephen,

 

You kind of have to hold the piece in hand to really get it.  On the image I sent - its a 360 image set - you "click and drag" right or left to rotate the piece - if you do so, you can see that the rope does what you describe - it goes to the edge on one side of the riceball (as it goes "behind" it), goes into/comes out of the center on the other side.

 

The hard part about this stuff is study - a lot of the images in books are so-so, and while a picture may be worth 1000 words, I think getting to study examples in hand is often worth 1000 pictures.  And study groups can be problematic - if everybody has the same poor quality and/or doctored pieces (rant omitted), what are you learning?  And to a lesser extent, shows are the same way.   I don't have a good answer for that.

 

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[Steves87]

Thank you Richard, I apologise, I did not realize it was a 360deg picture and again, great work!

 

Interesting points on shows and meetings, I guess I haven't thought that far ahead as I'm still looking to attend my first for both, haha