Identifying A Water Buffalo Tsuba

[djedie01]

Hello everybody,

 

I recently acquired this tsuba in a parisian flea market . I already posted it in christianmalterre's topic Bull/Bulls/Oxen tsuba, but I find it judicious to open a new topic not to spoil his thread.

 

Even If I pay great interest in asian arts and started collecting (chinese and Japanese) I am merely novice regarding tsubas.

so I have many difficulties with the identification of this tsuba.  (style / school / period)

 

every info would be very useful for me (for personal interest, and to share with family, who want to know more about this item)

 

I'll try to be the most precise with the description:

 

it is a round pierced iron Tsuba showing two water buffalos, bulls or cow, with nice brown/black patina and signs of oxidisation.

diam 7.8cm

2.7mm at the rim

4mm in the center

86g

 

the tsuba is unsigned, I feel it pre-Edo, but maybe am I wrong

 

 

Your help will be very useful to me!

 

Thanks, and sorry for my english, I did'nt practice for a while.

 

Benjamin L

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[christianmalterre]

Dear Benjamin,

 

some further pictures would certainly be of help here in this ( very nice! my own opinion only) Tsuba!

so maybe? some pictures from its omote and ura side ( taken under natural condition, and not in such "hard" "academic" looking on its white backround photo-) plus, of course, one or two pictures taken from a sideview perspective....?

possible?

 

a nice and indeed interesting Tsuba!

if ? it should sort out in equal quality on its backside and sideview...?

 

even better!

 

i am confident!....it looks least very promising!

 

 

Christian

[djedie01]

Dear Christian

 

I really thank you for your reactivity and your implication in this topic.

 

I've just taken few more pictures in more realistic conditions (with flash, it is already too dark here in france), I hope they will be usefull .

you'll find back and front pictures, and 3/4 perspectives

 

I'm glad to see you showing such optimism about this tsuba. I really hope this optimism will last with the new pictures!

 

Benjamin

 

 

 

 

 

[Gunome]

Hello,

 

At first glance I wondering if it wasn't a cast copy.

With new photo, I don't see cast line, but for sure, it is not pre edo.

I think it is more a late edo item. Maybe a shoami tsuba with a Kinai inspiration

 

Regards

[ROKUJURO]

Benjamin,

I would like to second Sébastien's opinion. Very late cast copy of an otherwise nice design. Of course this is an assessment based on photos only, but I see several spots on the TSUBA that show typical features of casting. A mold seam is only one of them. 

To be sure one has to see the TSUBA in hand, so try to find an expert for TSUBA. Jean, our moderator in Paris, might be a good address.  

[seattle1]

Hello:

 It doesn't appear new or cast to me, but it does look like something, perhaps contemporarily, inspired by a fine Ko Shoami that sold at auction 10 or so years ago. I don't have time to chase it down but that sale might have been from the Lundgren or Alan Harvie sale.

 Arnold F.

[djedie01]

Hello,

 

Thank you all for your replies.

As I already told, I'm new to tsubas, but I think I'm right telling it's not cast or new. I'm used to handle antique metalworks and I have a good feeling on this one.

 

Rokujuro, wich features make you think of a casting? Maybe I can take more detailed pictures of these spots?

I'll try to find someone here in France to show it.

Arnold, I'll try to find those auctions on the net.

 

Old or not it's a very good way to learn more!

 

Thanks.

 

Benjamin

[djedie01]

 

 

Are you talking about this one???

 

"This is a majestic tsuba. The modeling of the shishi shows amazing depth given the thin plate. The gauge and the narrow rim coupled with a width greater than the height give it an expansive feeling. The iron is very dense and well forged. The carving almost seems related to Kamakura bori, although in more detail and positive relief. The reverse shows the backs of the shishi. Dr. Torigoye wrote a hakogaki for this tsuba to Ko Shoami. I do not know of another tsuba like this one, but I also don't know what else it could be called. Ex. Lundgren collection"

 

found here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/shoami.htm

[ROKUJURO]

Benjamin,

the photos are not very good, but maybe I can describe what I mean. The outlines of the SUKASHI elements normally get their shape with a fine saw or chiselling and an additional filing. This leaves a relatively smooth surface, which I cannot see in your TSUBA. All lines are a bit indistinct and wobbly, there are no traces of tools to be seen.

The surface shows small recesses which are typical for casting techniques in sand molds.:

TAGANE impressions around the NAKAGO-ANA should be smooth inside and not show a sandy or grainiy structure.

These are just my observations based on the photos, but I may be wrong.  


Guss-TSUBA.doc

  
 

[djedie01]

Jean,

thanks for those observations.

 

I know my photos aren't that good, I'll try to take some new with natural light and a good camera.

 

I attributed this grainy surface to oxidisation rather than sand casting but maybe I'm wrong. Ill try to find someone in paris to show it!

 

thanks

Benjamin

[djedie01]

Hi again,

 

here are some further, better quality i hope, photos under natural light.

I think it better shows the corroded aspect

 

waiting for your observations

 

 

 

 

benjamin.

[seattle1]

Hello:

That is the one I had in mind; the creatures aren't the same but the thematic association is sort of strong.

Arnold F.

[ROKUJURO]

Benjamin,

these photos are much better. What I took for a coarse surface related to low quality casting might indeed be corrosion.

As I said: ask Jean, our moderator, he is a very knowledgeable collector.

[christianmalterre]

i hard do second Jean´s eye!

 

i think,Jean is pretty well right here in his written down wording.

 

cast but not reheatet....

a Japanese work of ?

well?.....who knows......

 

 

 

this was not a goal sorrowly!

I had wished you better Benjamin!

but well ???

who knows???

maybe next time ?

!

 

i do wish you the best!

 

Christian