Translation Assistance Please

[Davetom]

Good evening to the forum, may I please ask your assistance in finding any information on a sword that came to me many years ago via my late grandfather. I understand it may probably be militaria, but would be grateful if you could put your collective eyes over it, and possibly shed some light on it. I’ll just post pics of the script and hopefully they will be legible ?

Thanks in advance, Dave Thomas

[Davetom]

My apologies but for some strange reason the first two pics rotated 180 deg during the upload process?

[SteveM]

備後國三原住正清

Bingo-kuni Mihara-jū Masakiyo

 

Bingo is the name of the province

Mihara is the name of the location

Masakiyo is the name of the smith. If you search around you should find more information on this smith. Probably even a fair few posts on him on this site. I have no idea if your signature is legitimate or not. False signatures are unfortunately common. Also, I think most on the board would be interested in pictures of the sword itself. 

 

And, search on this site also for advice on handling and storage. 

 

edit: to get you started

http://www.sho-shin.com/sanyo13.htm

[Davetom]

Thanks Steve for your prompt reply, it’s all rather fascinating and there’s a lot of information to take in . If it is Masakiyo, how old would that make it ?

Thanks, Dave

[Davetom]

I’ll upload pics of the various parts tomorrow

[SteveM]

I don't know, but assume 400 years or older. Could be 600+ years. The problem is there are a few Masakiyo smiths, working at different times, and it is easy to fall down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out which one is which, especially without looking at the sword itself, which will have clues as to what era it was made. I searched for other examples of Masakiyo, but I think this one will require input from a specialist in Mihara. 

[Davetom]

Here’s some more pics ..

[Bugyotsuji]

Dave, can you get a close-up shot or two of the top section of the blade, a chunk of the middle of the blade, and any patterns that you might see featuring in the blade? (Please do not attempt to clean anything without professional advice.)

[Davetom]

No patterns or markings visible but here’s some closer pics

[Davetom]

Few more..

[SteveM]

Ouch. The nakago looked to be in good shape, so I was anticipating the sword would be in better condition. As it is, the sword would need a somewhat expensive restoration to bring it back to a condition that would allow the workmanship to be appreciated. A complete restoration of the sword would be in the neighborhood of $2000. The scabbard is a write-off, I'm afraid, but don't lose too much sleep over this. The scabbard parts wear down over time, and are often replaced (excluding exceptionally crafted, heirloom-quality work, or work that is in a good state of preservation). Most sword collectors in Japan are not sentimental about a 200 year old sword handle that is rotting and is in need of a new wrapping. New scabbards can be made. If you like the metal fittings (the tsuba, fuchi/kashira, menuki) you can make a new scabbard using these same parts. 

 

The difficult bit is discovering if all this work and expense is worth the effort. If the signature is authentic and the swordsmith is one of some reputation, it might well be worth it. If the signature is a forgery, it becomes doubtful whether the finished (restored) work would be worth the amount invested in the restoration. I don't know enough to tell you anything about this school or Masakiyo, but stick around. Personally I have my doubts about the authenticity because the shape of the sword looks like it is from 1650's or later, but the Bingo Mihara Masayukis (there were a few of them) were all working in the 1400 - 1500s. This is what I can tell from a quick dig on the internet. Anyway, somebody with more knowledge might chip in. 

[Davetom]

Many thanks Steve, I have to say it’s been a fascinating journey already, and s whole new world has opened up for me. Yesterday afternoon, my 8 yr old and his friend were using it ( under supervision ) to cut their Halloween pumpkins up on the lawn for the birds. I guess I’d better not do that again ! It’s been kicking round my fathers garage since before I was around ( I’m 50), and it’s still razor sharp.

My hobby is riding and restoring 1920s/30s motorcycles, so I understand your point that it’s provenance determines whether restoration is worthwhile. IF, and I know it’s a big IF, if it were to be who it purports to be, what is it’s value now vs possible value after a lot of work ? ( and cost of the work very approximately ) .im sorry to bring momey into this but this obviously plays a big decision in potential future paths that the sword could take. Besides that, I feel that I ought to try and verify it’s heritage as it would be a shame if something of possible historical interest was left kicking round our garage in its current forlorn state.

Kind regards, Dave

[SteveM]

No need to feel sorry for bringing up value. This is almost always a central question. (I'm more shocked about the pumpkin carving, for this is surely a centuries year old sword, even if it has a dodgy signature!). Anyway, moving beyond that and going back to valuation, this is impossible to tell. Take a look at the following thread for some discussion on Mihara. As I said, I now have my doubts as to whether yours would be part of the "Ko-Mihara" group, and I now suspect it is a 17th or 18th century sword that someone has tried to tart up with an interesting signature. 

 

http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/22147-ko-mihara/

 

Under all that rust on your sword there could be any number of flaws, cracks, worn or tired steel, and each of these reduces its value, often drastically. Already yours has lost its tip and its hamon (temper line), so its looking more and more like a centuries old curio rather than a valuable art sword. 

 

There are a few sword enthusiasts in the UK. They might have some advice as to where you could take it to get someone to look at it in hand.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Dave,

 

I'd agree with what Steve says - if the signature is good, the most likely candidates are a couple of smiths whose working life was from the early to late 1500s. This is from Markus Sesko's eSwordsmiths of Japan:

 

MASAKIYO (正清), 3rd gen., Tenbun (天文, 1532-1555), Bingo – “Bishū Mihara-jū Masakiyo” (備州三原住正清)

MASAKIYO (正清), 4th gen., Tenshō (天正, 1573-1592), Bingo – “Bingo Mihara-jū Kai Masakiyo” (備後三原住貝 正清)

 

The signatures quoted, however, aren't an exact match for the one on yours. That doesn't automatically mean that yours has been faked as Japanese sword smiths varied their signatures but my gut feeling is that the condition of the signature seems too fresh for a blade from this time frame. That's just a feeling though.

 

I'm not an expert on the various flavours of rust but I wonder whether it might be worth trying to do something to limit the damage to the blade. What is often quoted is to wrap the blade in newspaper soaked in oil and leaving it for a week or two. When unwrapped some of the rust should come away and the detail in the blade may be revealed to some extent. Perhaps others can chip in with some advice on this.

 

DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH THE TANG! Sorry to shout but cleaning the tang is a big no-no with Japanese swords as the patina is an indicator of the age and affects the potential value of the sword and should be left in place.

 

Best,

John

[Davetom]

Thanks John. Have to admit I wire-wooled the tang to make it more legible, I’ll leave well alone ! If any has any recommendations of U.K. experts ll happily take them. I’ve had a quick look on Google and not yet out d one that sounds suitable, but it was a quick look

[Davetom]

The tang has also been covered in an industrial type adhesive tape for the last 40yrs or so ( my father did it but no idea why ?!). Here’s one final pic of a close up of the scabbard detail. There’s 4 of these circles within a circle that show up in the right light

[Shugyosha]

Hi Dave,

 

I think that whoever you get to look at it is going to be hampered by the condition - specifically in terms of how deep the rust is. If you can do a bit of work with oil and paper to maybe reduce that it might help with an opinion. 

 

Also, if you want to PM me an address I can send you an uchiko ball - basically a cloth bag on a small stick filled with stone dust used to clean swords. It will take some patience but it might have a positive effect on the less affected areas. 

 

Grev Cooke ("Grev" is his handle on here) is in Coventry and he might be able to look at the blade for you. Alternatively, I'm a fairly frequent visitor to south Leicestershire and so I might be able to arrange something but I don't believe I'm an expert and neither should you. 

 

I'm happy to trawl my reference material to see if I can come up with some sample signatures by this smith which might give an indicator of whether or not it is genuine but, like you didn't find much via Google. I'm fairly sure that Markus Sesko will have used most of the more respected references in compiling his work so I wouldn't expect too much on my shelves. That will be next week though as I'm heading away for a couple of days.

 

Best,

John

[Mark C]

Hi Dave,

 

Next Sunday is the Birmingham arms fair held at the Motorcycle museum.

 

Bring it along and I'm sure some one will have a look for you, The Northern Token Society stall at the show.

 

All the best

 

Mark

[Davetom]

John - thanks for the tips and information, I’ll PM you ????

That’s a good call from Mark re the Arms fair at the museum, I’m only 20 mins from there so I’ll try and go next Sunday. My son is in a Rememberence Day parade but that should be over by lunchtime

[Davetom]

Went to the Arms Fair at the Motorcycle Museum (U.K.), and the very helpful chaps from the Northern Token Society estimated my sword at 1630ish . They were very informative and gave me tips on possibly getting it polished, and some leads on who to do it ( although they stressed the sword may be too far gone to do too much with ). Many thanks for the assistance on here, and also thanks to John ( Shugyosha) for kindly posting a couple of Uchikos to me at his own expense. I’ll report back again when there’s anything of interest to share with you.

Dave