Interesting Mino Juyo?

[paulb]

As has been suggested by others much of this is down to interpretation and opinion and I suggest as with everything else there will always be exceptions. The key seems to be the level of care taken in carrying out the suriage. I would suggest part of that also has to be related to how the nakago is reshaped as much as the way the end is cut.

To illustrate I have added three images below. The first from an enju walazashi where the nakago has justt been squarelty chopped off with no attempt to round it.

The second is an Aoe blade from the kamakura period. Based on the "kiri" argument the nakago jiri would lean the observer towards keicho sorthening even though it is slightly rounded but the nakago has been carefully reshaped and finished.

The last one illustrates a nakago that has been beautifully shortened and finished. The colour the shape etc all look great. The problem is that this is papered to the Tensho period (albeit old papers) If they are right this can only have been shortened later and would be an example of great care being taken during Keicho or later.

   

[Guido]

Is the third one orikaeshimei? In that case I haven‘t seen anything else than (kind of half) kiri, no matter when it was done.

[Ray Singer]

Here are three swords from my collection (one recently sold) which I felt to be Tensho suriage. All are Nambokucho (Ko-Uda Kunifusa, Ko-Mihara and Nidai Nobukuni).

[paulb]

Hi Guido,

No it isn't orikaeshimei. Sorry I wasn't very clear but the point I was getting at is that regardless of when this was shortened someone went to a lot of trouble in shaping and finishing the nakago. The impression I got from earlier posts was that Keicho suriage was less carefully executed and finished, but perhaps I misunderstood.

[Guido]

No it isn't orikaeshimei.

 

And there I was, so proud to have much better vision after getting my new glasses ...  ... but this is what I'm still seeing  :

[paulb]

I think what is fooling your eye is the shinogi line running through the nakago

[Guido]

[Surfson]

Other than the differences in styles of finishing the jiri, and the slight difference in the year that a blade would have been cut down, are there any other important pieces of information that one can get from the two styles of osuriage?  Were more or less important blades cut down in Tensho vs Keicho?  Were the blades cut down during Tensho more likely to have been longer when ubu than the blades cut down during Keicho? Are the Tensho osuriage blades in general older than the Keicho osuriage blades?  In other words, is there anything else we can learn as a kantei point when viewing a blade cut down either way?  Also, after Keicho, did the Keicho style of osuriage persist or was the Tensho style still used on occasion?  I find it strange and interesting if the story is that the Tensho style was used for a brief period only and that from then on blades were just unceremoniously cut in the Keicho style.  I realize that there may not be much information on this, but if one of you has studied the question somewhere along your sword study path, please share what you have learned.