Nlf Gunto Discussion

[Bruce Pennington]

Excellent, Michael, that's a beauty!

I may be wrong, but I believe that is Takeyasu.  Here's an example that is easier to read:

 

Hard to tell from your photo the size of the anchor stamp.  Can you give a measure of it's diameter?

[Michaelr]

Thank you Bruce. I will measure the anchor stamp as soon as I can and repost it. Have you ever seen one with the peg in the Kashira? Do you have other #95 recorded?
 MikeR

[Bruce Pennington]

19 hours ago, Michaelr said:

Have you ever seen one with the peg in the Kashira? Do you have other #95 recorded?
 MikeR

Mike, I didn't go through all 118, but in the 30 or so I found 4.  Here's one, one of the two that came with the PX souvenir letter.  Signed Hiratoshi, with no painted number:

It is an odd thing.  The nakago doesn't have an ana there, so can't imagine the purpose of the peg.

 

I have one other 95:
 

Mei

Date

Anchor

Fittings

Kabu finish

Jiri Finished?

#

Source

88.	Takeyasu	ND	Small	Standard	Texture	Yes, shaped	95	Michaelr, NMB
89.	Mumei	ND	Large	Standard sarute	Unknwn	No	95	Smallsword; ebay

[Nazar]

Bruce, here is another one from the same site:

 

https://richard-militaria.at/Japan-marine-katana-fuer-offiziere-shin-gunto

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

4 hours ago, Nazar said:

here is another one from the same site:

Good one, Nazar, thank you!  An interesting one, too, with that stamped "119."  Normally we see this on wartime blades, although I do have four others with stamped numbers.  I'm tempted to think this was a war surplus blade, but that unfinished nakago with heat coloration sure looks like something made by the souvenir operation.

[Bruce Pennington]

Here's one of those puzzling ones.  Found on this Toovey's Auction.  Mumei, no observable stamp, #65.  Fittings are typical Army, but hey are not gold gilded.  Most puzzling is the tsuka ito which clearly had been handled/carried considerably, look at the sweat stains.  Adding to the list of souvenirs with sarute ... and this one is a bit unusual.

 

[John C]

Bruce:

Just for reference, mine is in similar condition and set-up as the one above. And, happens to be one number later "66".

 

John C.

[Jcstroud]

On 11/19/2025 at 3:27 AM, Bruce Pennington said:

Here's one of those puzzling ones.  Found on this Toovey's Auction.  Mumei, no observable stamp, #65.  Fittings are typical Army, but hey are not gold gilded.  Most puzzling is the tsuka ito which clearly

Interesting that this example at the Toovies auction does not have the 1 piece fuchi indicates an earlier souvenir made with wartime army fittings very likely a wartime built blade suriaged for standard length tsuka at the Tenshozan Tanrenjo is my guess.

[Bruce Pennington]

13 minutes ago, Jcstroud said:

does not have the 1 piece fuchi

Good catch John. I hadn’t noticed that. It goes along with the rest of the fittings not being gold gilded. Kind of supports the idea that they were using surplus parts initially.

[Nazar]

Yet one

[Bruce Pennington]

Nice one, Nazar!  Shaped nakago jiri and no heat stains, so likely a surplus blade from war production.  Checking the chart, with our duplicate numbers, most have one blade that has finished jiri and the other/s do not, supporting the theory that the finished blades were surplus and the unfinished blades were made for the souvenir contract.

[Kiipu]

Both painted 六六 and stamped 250 numbers.

Late to Postwar Japanese Army Sword

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, that one is one of the mixed souvenirs with actual Army tsuba/seppa.  But it's got the stereo-typical icky color ito and black cloth for same'; plus the Navy stamped stainless blade with the 2-digit painted number.  I think it was of the first-run production souvenirs using some left over wartime parts.

 

 

[Nazar]

Number 272 popped out.

 

https://richard-militaria.at/Japan-typ-98-katana-offizier-infanterie-shin-gunto

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

7 hours ago, Nazar said:

Number 272 popped out.

Good one, Nazar!

Stamped 272 was likely a wartime stamp.  The painted "21" is the souvenir number with matching 21 stamped on fittings.  I noticed the kabutogane is army finish rather than gold gilded, so likely left-over war parts.

[Jcstroud]

On 10/27/2025 at 6:19 PM, Bruce Pennington said:

I'm tempted to think this was a war surplus blade, but that unfinished nakago with heat coloration sure looks like something made by the souvenir operation.

Bruce, could it be possible that the heat suriaged blades were originally made with longer nakagos fabricated for kendo training under the direction Takayama Masakichi for use at Toyama ryu and also Takayama ryu and then after the war collected and modified for standard length koshirai by The Tenshozan Tanrenjo to fulfil the US Army contract?

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Sure, John, certainly possible.

[Bruce Pennington]

Hit a minor milestone today, as I found a 4th blade painted "45".  We've had some triples so far, but this is the first fourth.  It's a Toyosuke blade with the small circled anchor.  On auction at this eBay page.  She's asking kaigunto price of $2,200 which is a bit over market price for a souvenir.  I sent a message to her.  We'll see if she responds.

 

[John C]

4 hours ago, Bruce Pennington said:

I found a 4th blade painted "45"

Bruce:

I'm sure I'll catch a bit of flack for this, however I've always felt there was more to these numbers that just "assembly" bin numbers for parts etc. There are consistent colors and number of digits used by various smiths (or arsenals, perhaps). And now you have 4 of the same number with almost all souvenirs using two digits and black paint. I still think these numbers have something to do with applying to different smiths or arsenals, possibly for pay purposes or as an identifyer for polishers.

 

John C.

[Bruce Pennington]

20 hours ago, John C said:

I've always felt there was more to these numbers that just "assembly" bin numbers for parts

John,

No flack from me, brother.  I think you're the guy that started to study the painted numbers, right?  If so, you are currently the resident expert!  I do think you are right about the colors and number schemes being specific to shops, forges, and arsenals.  We have that one photo of several blades lined up with white, or the pale blue, numbers.

 

With that in mind, the 2-digit black numbering on these souvenirs is specific to Tenshozan, which actually backs up your point.

[BANGBANGSAN]

21 hours ago, John C said:

Bruce:

I'm sure I'll catch a bit of flack for this, however I've always felt there was more to these numbers that just "assembly" bin numbers for parts etc. There are consistent colors and number of digits used by various smiths (or arsenals, perhaps). And now you have 4 of the same number with almost all souvenirs using two digits and black paint. I still think these numbers have something to do with applying to different smiths or arsenals, possibly for pay purposes or as an identifyer for polishers.

 

John C.

John

That’s possible. However, the IJN was very fond of applying black paint to bayonet scabbards, metal parts, and even the blades themselves. Perhaps the black paint on the assembly numbers was simply the same type of paint they commonly liked to use. Who knows? 😊