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Really great info, Piers and everyone else also, I appreciate it.

Here is another one which looks even more modern, very confusing. This interesting little piece is part of a collection of antique Chinese iron pole cannons. There seems to be little available information on these curious antiques but I was able to locate one in the Hong Kong Military Museum. These types of cannons are typically attributed to the 17th through the 19th centuries. They come in all shapes and sizes. It would have been attached to a wooden pole and used for firing bullets or signals of sort. This piece is relatively small (about 16 cm in length) and weighs about 1354 grams. It has five separate barrels that are roughly 9mm in diameter. The touch holes are fused closed. from>>> http://www.trocadero.com/pricelesspast/ ... 59218.html

Daimyou is hard to understand, he obviously know the difference between an old item and a replica but he just wont come right out and say it, its like a game, real antiques mixed in with modern replicas and you have to guess.

Here we have a fantastic and unique iron Chinese Triple Barrel Handgonne in pristine condition! It is NOT made of brass or bronze! This rare find is 13.75 inches long (35 cm). The weight is approximately 6 lbs. and the bore sizes are between 17 and 18 mm. This cannon was in use for 300 to 400 years! The nipples were filled with a fine flash powder and a waxy paper was placed over each nipple to keep the powder from leaking out. A punk stick was then used to set off the charge. Originally, some of these fired by inserting a red hot wire in the touch hole! Believed to be a 16/17th Century antiquity, almost impossible to find in this condition. NOT sea salvage. An early step towards superior firepower. from>>. http://www.handgonne.com/gonne_7.html Some interesting pictures on this site including what is supposed to be a Korean multi shot one. I cant believe that the Japanese did not pick up this technology from their neighbors.

Piers, I do not see any photos, but yes, its an interesting subject so if you have any I would like to save them for future reference, thanks

I have read that devices like this were fired using a hot wire or poker, anyone know if this is accurate? "Handgonne being fired from a stand - Belli Fortis", manuscript, by Konrad Kyeser, is a remarkable manual of strategy and military engineering, 1400. It shows the beginnings of guns. The handgun (an eight or 16 inch iron or bronze tube held in a straight wooden stock ignited by poking a hot wire into the touch hole) appeared in the 14th century. Germany developed the first mechanical means of igniting the gunpowder in the gun. A matchcord was held in a lock which pivots toward the touch hole by applying pressure on a trigger. The matchlock was born and was first shown in a 1411 manuscript. from>> http://www.sfusd.k12.ca.us/schwww/sch61 ... annon.html .................Is it possible that the Asian style hand cannons were fired the same way? No fuse or depression at the touch hole would be needed to fire them in this case.

I have read that devices like this were fired using a hot wire or poker, anyone know if this is accurate?

It would be nice if there was more reference material on thse types of firearms, maybe this thread will help someone in the futur., I would like to see authenticated examples so I could have something to compare against.

Thanks Ian, its a very complicated subject! I have been looking for information on this kind of early cannon or gun but its hard to find.

Ian, it looks like there is a shallow depression around each touch hole that is not showing on some pictures, could the lathe look have come from a casting form? I am assuming type would have been cast.

Thanks Brian and Jean to, its hard to tell the real from the fake, there are not many examples online either.

Jean, here you go. I never heard of a...pepperbox...is that a term used for different types of guns? GENUINE PRE-1750 OLD ANTIQUE CHINESE HAND-HELD MULTI BORE CANNON. TEN BARREL... EACH APPROX. 0.5 INCH 1.25 CMS EACH BORE(.5 INCH) HAVING A SEPERATE TOUCH HOLE. SKILLFULLY CONSTRUCTED. PLENTY OF ANCIENT RUST. ORIGANALLY ONCE MOUNTED ON A HUGE WOODEN POLE/STOCK RARE MUSEUM PIECE UNCONDITIONALLY GUARANTEED 100% GENUINE APPROX. (14 X 6 CMS) EXTREMELY HEAVY...SOLID

Piers, I am going to try one more time, dont tell me Major Tomm has gone bad! from>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 1164wt_960

Dustin, I tried your link and it did not work for me. Can you check it out or if someone else here can verify if is working or not, thanks.

Piers, yes I understand your point, Thanks

Piers, with so few pictures of authenticated real ones available I have little to judge against, anything about it in particular which sets your alarm off?

Here is another one, looks like it might be real. from> http://cgi.ebay.com/EXTRAORDINARILY-RAR ... _500wt_750

John, any idea what the rope tied around both ends of the guns is for? Something for recoil? They seem to be standing on it.

Simon, I have a mumei wakizashi which has a hada that I think looks a lot like yours, I have never been able to identify it. Hope you can get some info.

Ron I agree with you, I often hear about some samurai weapon being a "novelty" but I personally think that unless a weapon was very extravagant and useless it was not a novelty at all, we just do not understand the circumstances of its manufacture and use. As for merchants, I have read a few things that made me think that at least some merchants may have had a special relationship with the Daimyou's and were either samurai themselves or had some sort of special status with the Daimyou's and might have been given a monopoly on certain kinds of trade which would possibly have made them targets. I do see from time to time items that were obviously expensive, well made and fairly extravagant (but not Daimyou extravagant) which reminded me of objects from other cultures which came from the rich merchant class. Rich merchants are always envied in any culture and would probably be well armed and could afford the best armor and weapons of the time. Just an interesting side note which I would not mind finding more info on.

I ran into this picture a while back, it is supposed to be the actual Smith and Wesson army #2 of Sakamoto Ryoma. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Smith ... _Ryoma.jpg which is linked from this interesting article on what I consider to be one of the most interesting periods of Samurai history.>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boshin_War

In the same vein, here is a picture of a naginata saya showing the 2 halves.

IAN,, do you know if merchants of the time would have been samurai, I have never heard anything mentioned on this?

From what I understand it is impossible to guarantee that a seki stamped sword is gendaito no matter how traditional it looks..please correct me if I am wrong.

Simon, I think more pictures would be needed, can you post some more?