sanjuro

Following on from this raises an interesting question. The above being the case, and midful of the various texts on swords of that period claiming that blade breakage was more commonplace in shinto and shinshinto swords, could this be a primary reason for those breakages? Given that Shinae kendo technique fosters a 'hit' style of technique rather than a 'cut' style of technique such as one finds in kenjutsu, this would place a very different kind of stress on the blade than that which it is designed for. Sorry if this is an off topic thing, but I have very little control of my epiphanous moments. :D

Gentlemen, We are working in the dark here. We dont know what the owners intentions are and it seems we are arriving at conclusions that may not apply. It may be fitting (no pun intended)at this point for Curtis to state if there is a gunto koshirae with this blade and to what purpose he intends to put the sword when mounted. At least we can then advise appropriately. :D

This is not necessary and may ultimately devalue the blade to some extent. On the one hand You express concern about filing the fittings to fit a blade saying it will devalue the fittings, and in the next paragraph you suggest drilling an extra hole in the nakago. Hardly a consistent attitude. A showato, whether you consider them 'real' nihonto or otherwise, does not warrant altering the blade and its originality in order to use it, (if using it is indeed the objective). Thousands upon thousands of swords were made and used seriously with only one mekugi pin. With a correctly fitting tsuka and tight mekugi pin, there is no danger of the blade flying out of the tsuka during use. Fittings were and are often subjected to a little filing in order to make them fit if necessary. At worst only the nakago ana of the fuchi and possibly the tsuba will need adjusting. Unless fittings have been specifically made for a blade, and very few Edo period fittings were made for a specific sword, then a slight alteration is fine. Many of the Edo period fittings and tsuba we see have been adjusted in this way already at some point in their life.

OK, so why is it that I feel like the unpaid advertising exec for Ford Hallam Incorporated huh???? :?

Curran. I have it in hand now and the patina is really nice and dark with what appears to be small iron bones in the mimi that did not show in the photographs. The steel is as hard as the hobs of hell as you suspected. :D

Having personally explored both of your options over the years, I know that in the end it will come down to what you feel comfortable with. However, Edo period fittings are not hard to come by, and you would stand a good chance of getting a good original set. As far as assembling them into a koshirae goes, have it done professionally and supply the fittings yourself. Any alterations such as filing or semigane are done properly and this was common practice when mounting a sword anyhow. Making a tsuka and saya is not a job an amateur should really do if you want a nice homogenous finish that looks in proportion and suits the fittings you supply. On the other hand, when I have had fittings made it has proved very expensive and I always felt that they were essentially 'replicas' of fittings from a bygone age. Thats just me however, because I'm a traditionalist by nature and older is better in my head. The first option is easier on the pocket in the long run so I guess it will also depend on how much hard earned cash you want to part with to achieve your ultimate goal. I suggest you talk to Ford Hallam on this board about a full set of fittings if you want get an idea of the cost and process of having some made. His work is renowned, and he will be a valuable source of information, since he is never shy about voicing an informed opinion. :D

I agree with Chris. My own experience is somewhat similar apart from the shopping at home preference. Because of my location I am obliged to shop overseas. Ebay however, is something of a dead zone compared to what it once was. I have a small group of Ebay sellers that I keep an eye on, sellers that I have dealt with over a period of years and whom I trust. The general run of sellers on ebay I ignore. For any acquisition of quality, I rely almost exclusively on dealers (mostly in Japan). I guess on reflection that it was inevitable that ebay would ultimately descend largely into the clutches of trash and/or fake peddlers. It is rarely now that I buy anything on ebay, and the last blade I bought there was some two years ago from a seller that I know and have trusted for a decade or more. Having said as much, I recently bought a tembo tsuba of quite nice quality on ebay for less than $80 (again from a seller I have confidence in)......... Go figure, but dont expect to repeat that excercise very often.

Chris. Lopping off a man's fingers intentionally, takes pinpoint accuracy with the blade........ Now that's fine as a demo of your skill , but why not just kill him, its easier and he isnt going to come looking for you later to resume the issue?

Piers. If you dont mind me chiming in here, what you have heard or read is essentially true. However as a sword practitioner, theres a couple of things that spring to mind concerning the preferred methods of despatching an opponent with a sword, particularly an armoured opponent. Armour as far as a swordsman is concerned is always a tradeoff between the amount of protection it affords compared to the weight, compared to the mobility and impairment to the deployment of the sword it represents. A kabuto for instance affords good protection for the head but it also impairs peripheral vision. On a battlefield, that alone may cost you either your life or a serious concussion. You wear armour in your historical activities, so I'm sure you can relate to this. Whilst Japanese armour is relatively light, for a swordsman, running around in a full set of armour tires you prematurely during a battle, so you left off the bits that you considered redundant to the task at hand. The kabuto was set aside in favour of this armoured hachimaki by many samurai of the period but it did not offer the same protection of course. As a protection against a direct men cut, it was marginal in terms of protection, (It wouldnt stop a men cut) but it was great at protecting against glancing blows which are far more likely. Its a good tradeoff in a fast moving spontaneous engagement where you have multiple or quickly consecutive opponents. On the other hand, in a one to one engagenment where you can focus on a single opponent and perhaps lure him into making a mistake with his blade down, a men cut is decisive. As far as preferences go in bring your man down, a swordsman targets unprotected areas, in the case of these figurines and the way they are armoured, thighs and arms are unarmoured and would be prime targets. (You do of course have to get past your opponent's sword in order to cut him down). Once disabled you can pick the way you want to finish him off. (Or more likely just let him bleed to death whilst you fight another guy who is trying to chop you into dog meat). Sorry for the gruesome description but war isnt pretty and an opponent down is one less. Just my thoughts as a martial artist on the matter, I hope you dont mind me voicing them.

Ford and Adam. Firstly I would like to thank Ford for his interest and his suggestion of how to tackle the problem. What Ford has said above resonates well with my own thoughts regarding this particular set of FK, particularly since there is an element of wear and age to the patina that I want to preserve if at all possible, and which would be difficult to reproduce if the whole set was completely repatinated. Since 90% or more of the patina is intact, It would be a pity to lose that for the sake of this small area. Having said that, I dont doubt that Ford could reproduce the original patina perfectly and even make it look aged and worn if required, but it would be extra work to distress or fade the patina with wear that has been centuries in the making, and original in this case is better if it can be preserved. So this is how I have approached it thus far........ The wet toothpick method yielded minimal (if any) result after an hour of rubbing, so I modified Ford's method a little. Since verdigris is hydroscopic, I cleaned down the area with methylated spirit to dry out any of the water that may remain in the verdigris. I then used a small horn spatula that I have used in the past for cruddy menuki, to wear away and scrape gently at the verdigris. This worked without touching any of the original patina. The verdigris comes off as a greenish white powder. (some of the spatula is also worn away in the process). Repeated wiping with the methylated spirit on a cotton bud removes the residue. Thus I proceeded until no more residue was coming away from the surface. The patina is still intact. I shall have a further session doing this and when sealed with wax as per the original method I'll post a pic to show the results. Now Ford can berate me with criticism for altering his suggested method, but the results so far are most promising and I have not violated the first commandment, "DO NO HARM". NB. Should it come to pass that I screw it up completely, I'll give it to Ford to repatinate, and he can gloat appropriately. :D

Brian I understand what shakudo is. Maybe its the way I put it but it is solid shakudo alloy. The patination however comes from a pickling solution, and its this patina that I dont want to destroy. Sorry If I made it sound as though the piece was covered in shakudo. Fuchi Kashira set, in shakudo. Not 'set in shakudo'. This is where I think I led you astray. Or possibly when I referred to the shakudo being thin. The patina is what I should have referred to as being thin. My Bad.

Serious question: I have a handachi style fuchi kashira set in shakudo, part of a full koshirae. The kashira/kabuto gane is infected with green verdigris (see Pic). I wish to neutralise or better still, remove this. As I see it I have a couple of alternatives. Since the verdigris will only form on the base copper, then obviously the shakudo patina is thin or otherwise compromised in the affected area. Removing the verdigris by abrasion will obviously damage the surrounding patina. I dont want to do this. Question: what can I use to neutralise the verdigris and mask the colour of it? It seems to be slightly granular in nature so possibly it may lift if treated with a chemical or oxidant of some kind. What can be used safely?

Jussi. I think for what you are trying to achieve there are a few redundant questions in your survey. So, a trimming would allow you to use the service that Mariusz or Barry have suggested.

Alex. Hilt to the right is more old fashioned. It makes the sword more accessible in case of an attack. This method dates to Muromachi period. Only the effite samurai of the Edo period were so lacking in preparedness that they racked their swords hilt to the left. They had forgotten that one must stay vigilant and ready to fight even when in your own house. Hilt to the left a sword is harder to draw quickly for use. In iaijutsu I was taught to draw the katana whilst it was still on the katanakake, leaving the saya where it was!

Alex. Custom and common usage. On a katanakake the blade is displayed as worn. Katana edge up, Tachi edge down. I dont make the rules I just obey them. I do agree however that in the case of the tachi it seems to go against conventional wisdom concerning the preservation of sharp edge. Given that Tachi were not really supposed to be displayed or racked on a katanakake, then my guess would be that it was considered only a temporary measure in the absence of a tachi kake. In my own case at home, my Tachi in koshirae are displayed on a tachi kake hilt down, and those tachi I have in shirasaya are on Katanakake -edge up. And for the record, I always rack my swords hilt to the right on a katanakake. Its a martial arts thing, and it aint gonna change at my house, despite the Edo period practice of racking swords hilt to the left. :D

On further reflection, a question that arises in my mind regardless of which way up it is displayed, is since the jaws of the upper support are invariably quite narrow on a tachi kake, being made for the much slimmer koshirae saya, would they admit a shirasaya that is usually quite a bit stouter than a normal saya? I think also that the safety aspect is worth considering since the sori of a tachi blade is usually more pronounced toward the nakago, the hilt up method may render it rather unsafe or unsightly on a tachi kake as Franco has indicated. Hilt up may be more desirable and may be allowable but is it wise?

Curran. I can only pass on what my Sensei told me. Since he was from a very old and famous samurai bloodline, I figure he knew what was what. Tachi in Koshirae on a tachi kake: Hilt down. Tachi on Katana kake : edge down. Katana (Otherwise daito) on tachi kake are displayed hilt up, and a tachi in shirasaya is equally a daito, so hilt up would be appropriate As already mentioned, Tachi in shirasaya are usually displayed on a katana kake edge down. However, if displayed on a tachi kake of necessity, then hilt up to show the sayagaki in your case would be best and also appropriate. At the end of the day, I doubt you are going to be labelled a Philistine for non observance of an obscure custom since it is legitimate to display the sayagaki in a way that it can be read without handling the sword. :D

Forget it....... Those with high enough and complex enough income structures to be able to afford nihonto between 5 and 20k will be unlikely to tell the truth........ particularly after massaging the facts for the benefit of various tax departments in diverse countries. Some of the lies would make interesting reading though. :D

Klaus. Please dont think I'm ganging up on you here, But I think that you are missing the point. If a blade is out of polish even though that blade is owned by Chris, the seller is no more able to see beneath the blades poor or degraded surface condition than any one else. This is why only polished blades are admitted to shinsa. A project blade is a risk, and at $300 you arent getting anything that even when polished, can be a certainty of any kind of quality. I think its pretty fair to say that if there was any certainty of quality lying dormant beneath the accumulated scratches and crud of a couple of hundred years then the price from any educated seller would reflect that certainty. To other hopefuls I would stress that there is really no such thing as a bargain 'put down the money and run' deal to be had from any seller despite a belief on the part of some posters to the contrary. Some sellers may take a loss against what they paid for the sword as has been outlined, but you are not going to literally steal a sword of quality from under the nose of someone who knows what the value of that blade is. Hope for an idiot seller if you wish, but you will grow old in the hope of one day picking up a sleeper. Be prepared to pay what a sword is worth rather than hope in vain for intervention from the gods of nihonto just because you either cant afford, or wont pay, for quality.

Peter. If you are thinking of trying to re wrap your own tsuka, give it some careful thought. It is better done professionally. If however you are determined to try then at least find out how it is done. Its not as easy as it might look, tension is critical and the little paper triangles are folded a very specific way, using a specific type of paper, and are wet when they are first applied to the tsuka beneath the tsuka ito. There are quite a few less than obvious little ways of doing it correctly, and the finishing knots are not quite as simple as they appear. You wont really learn anything from watching UTube. Find a publication on the subject to get an idea of how to proceed. Or, get it done by a professional. Its not that expensive and the finished job will be better than even your best effort can ever hope to be.

Still in use as Jean says. However, there are 11 ways to wrap a tsuka and not all use the paper triangles to pack the tsuka ito. If you are referring to the most common way, Morohinerimaki, then paper packing is and should be used.

A somewhat paraphrased quote from a collector friend of mine, now deceased. Those new to the world of nihonto collecting are consumed by a lust to own, to touch a real nihonto and they place a lower value on the gratification of their lust than an experienced collector who suffers no less from the same lust but knows better the true price of it.

John. I hear what you say. However, you (apparently) speak primarily of the cross and the swastika in a European context where they have been associated with religious symbology since remote historical times. The old pagan religions of europe, (the Celts spring immediately to mind with both of these symbols), employed both designs in a completely different way, and the cross specifically had no original association with crucifixion, which is its chief association in the Christian religion. In the context of Christian themed tsuba, I am not aware of any precedence in Eastern belief systems that embodies the cross specifically as a primary religious symbol. Prior to the introduction of Christianity to Japan, a cross was simply a cross - the intersection of two lines at 90 degrees. My point in citing the tachi tsuba in the original post was to illustrate the fact that it was in fact a cross but not a Christian symbol since the design and the symbology of it predated the introduction of christianity. The cross and the swastika both appear on Kamon that also predate the introduction of Christianity to Japan and though they may have had some religious meaning, its significance was in no way Christian prior to the Jesuits arriving on Japanese soil.

Playing devil's advocate here...... How appropriate is that????? Particularly in the case of the cross symbol, for those who are searching for a Christian motif they will see it in any random 90 degree intersection of two straight lines. For those who are indifferent, there needs to be some other supporting symbology. We do however need to remember that an intersection of two lines at approximately 90 degrees is artistically speaking, and barring a curved line, probably the most common occurrence of all. I cite here the tachi tsuba pictured at the beginning of this thread. It is actually a representation of the ken motif repeated four times as in the four directions, and bears at each terminal an inome' (boars eye) symbol which indicates vigilance and uwavering commitment. The boar once having selected a target for his charge does not let his eye leave that target. The design predates Christianity being introduced into Japan and has nothing to do with it, yet there are those that would see some Christian symbology implicit within it. Simply not so I'm afraid........ Simply not so. Similar to the case of the swastika symbol, the cross symbol where it is not just a random occurence but is intended as a symbol, is far more ancient and significant than simply an indication of a religious conviction. Both the cross and the swastika were used as kamon long before the samurai were made aware of any Christian God.

Jacques. Is there some reason to doubt these authorities????