Darcy

Also John Tirado could fix it so it was like new. http://www.sayashi.com/ Might take 9 months or so because he's busy, but his lacquer work is beautiful.

I hope you will be OK Dr. S. Your site was the beginning of all knowledge for me in Nihonto. Many weeks I read through and still go back there now. No doubt this is true of 99% of the "new generation." Maybe you won't be back to read this, but you opened the door for almost all of us on the internet I'm sure.

Ah, learned something on that one... this is a perfect example of knowing enough about the operation of a gun to shoot yourself cleanly in the foot. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing :-).

Nakago looks older than that to me. How long is the blade?

I think you are grasping for "Chu-jo saku." Chu means "middle" and "jo" means "superior." So this is a middle-superior smith, which is an awkward way of saying "above average."

I'm glad to see you recycling wood. I try to save what I work with as well. Oak is beautiful stuff... always nice to see what some people would consider scrap go into something that is art. Post pics when you're done! I made my own kake from rosewood in one case, and ebony in another... not scrap but I made a nice table from scrap!

Speaking as a metalworker, with soft metal anything is possible. Ted probably has a better answer as mentioned above. If you want to save the habaki, you could probably send it to Brian Tschernaga who is skilled beyond belief. I just dabbled in soft metal work, when I see what he is able to make with his hands I am astounded.

Hi Tobias, Sukehiro is one of the most important smiths of the Shinto period. I'm on the train right now and can't use any references, but I am pretty sure Ludolf will come along and give a nice analysis soon :-). Germany is a good place to be in Europe as a sword student because the NBTHK/Euro branch is active there and there are several high end collectors and many dedicated students there. I would look to attend a meeting and bring this piece in and get some of them to look at it. At first glance the signature style would be for late period work as it is all grass script on both sides. However, this smith was faked often and well, so first glance does not mean much. The smith is famous for artistic yasurime and this piece does not seem to have this, so that is a strike against it. The signature needs to be compared to references closely because he changed his signing style a few times. With a big signature one has to start from the assumption that it is gimei pretty much, and this is a big signature. The tsuba is signed Oshu (town?) Ju Yoshitsugu Saku. The koshirae seem to be fair quality. I could look up the town but again, on the train and things are bouncing all over heh. A polish will cost about $75 USD / inch of the piece. A shirasaya might cost $200 or so for a tanto, maybe less.

http://www.lulu.com/browse/preview.php?fCID=538442 Haha, better yet Justin I'll autograph it and mail it back if you want heh.

Hehe, that's pretty funny. Lulu may want it back to figure out what went wrong during printing. I guess not all bugs are out of their system. After you get your replacement, sure I'd love to have it... you can snail mail it to me. Just let me know when you get your replacement...

Amazing how well they can be restored. Glad to see it back in shape, you have to feel good about how well it turned out and that you gave it its dignity back esp. given the story on the nakago about how the owner felt. I remember when you found it and the nakago was posted on the old board and it was translated for the first time... cool stuff.

Going back over the Juyo consideration for this piece and the price. As a Kiyomaro, the price is low and on price alone you don't have to come to a conclusion that it is or was a Juyo candidate. In general tanto are going to have a bit rougher time I think unless the smith is known for tanto. In my own experience they seem to have been held to a higher standard than daito. I've paid quadruple the price of the lowest priced Juto I've bought for a Hozon sword, so once again the price has to be broken from the papers and the sword and the maker of the piece. You have to be concerned with things in the opposite order. Kiyomaro is one of a handful of smiths that really represent the entire art. For his period, he is the prime artist. The black and white picture that W.Y. linked I think shows off his top work beautifully, I have not seen that kind of piece in my hands, though I think maybe I've seen only three of his works... I forget, they didn't really leave a strong impression. But that said, if you had unlimited funds and wanted to make a representative collection, you'd end up with a Masatsune, Hisakuni, Masamune, Kotetsu and Kiyomaro. That's why the price of a piece like this is going to be high. Maker is held in the highest regard. You see this even in things like pencil sketches by Picasso that he slammed out in five minutes. They go for prices well above masterpieces of other artists though they themselves may be of limited artistic merit (this is an extreme example). Within the body of work of Picasso they are of limited interest, but within the body of works available to collectors they will always have strong interest because of the artist and his importance to the art world. The smith though seems to not have been the most responsible guy, and in not "getting" him I have to say it's not like I've been exposed to the full scope of his work. This is to say, he seemed to entirely be the kind of character who might be inclined to slam out a "pencil sketch" to fulfil an order but that will not be representative of his talent. That may be a reason why the great experts will rave having studied his full output and guys like me won't get it or may judge on a piece like this. In this tanto, I don't particularly like the sugata and the nakago in particular seems in poor proportion. I think he normally signed in sanjimei "Minamoto Kiyomaro" and this would be slightly off the ideal signature (which is a big deal). My analysis could be off as Kiyomaro is not a focus of my study. The part I like least is the whiteness going through the ji, it looks weakly forged and with the reputation of the smith I would be expecting more. Notably the detailed pictures avoid photographing what seems to be the weakest area. Rather, the area immediately above it (as can be identified by a small bright white flaw) is repeated in the place of the weak spot to give the illusion that the entire side of that sword has been traversed in the detail pictures. That implies intent, maybe it is just an error, but it is kind of suspicious that the weakest area of the sword is mistakenly replaced with a stronger portion. Aoi has also had some generous treatment of boshi and other things in oshigata previously that were pointed out on this board in the past. There is a lot to like about it, the hamon looks nice and the jihada is otherwise beautiful, but it does not feel like it stands out like the one on the Fujishiro webpage which is stunning and powerful. Aoi's comment that this is a Samonji copy is a bit odd to me. Sa did not make tanto of this size in general (28cm) and his archetypal boshi is pointed and features a deep turnback, which this piece does not. The hamon does not look much like Sa to me either and Fujishiro notes him as gunome ko-choji or else midareba (which would be in Soshu style). This doesn't strike me as either, it's more of a larger patterned slightly midare gunome. Maybe this is a copy of a specific piece and I'm showing my ignorance of it, I dunno. I want to put in my two bits about keeping incendiary stuff off the board. I left the other one because things got ugly for a while. Please let's stay gentlemen and colleagues, feel free to disagree and remind that we're all students and none of us expert. Also let's allow for the freedom to discuss opinions that maybe the emperor has no clothes, there can be merit to both interpretations when it comes to a smith like this and the fact that study in this field can often be bound to a traditional and accepted viewpoint from which it is not possible to stray. Inbetween we can be reminded to keep our minds open in both directions and it'll help us all learn.

The Glenbow museum in Calgary has a collection of swords.... not sure how many or what the quality is, but your first step can be there to go look. Seeing blades is very important before buying.

w.y. is right... Papers have a relative factor as well as an absolute factor in the desirability. A flawless signed Sukehiro with fine koshirae will always be expensive and desirable, as would a Kanemoto or Tadayoshi, though the blade may not qualify for Juyo. The above swords would be representative of desires for the majority of collectors. Another piece may be Juyo because it is a rare example, and may appeal more to someone who is a scholar than someone who is admiring the beauty of a particular sword... or the beauty may be more of a subjective nature. Someone may enjoy the rustic nature of certain blades, or details in the construction which are unusual that may be lost on someone who is more impressed by the bright and shiny (like me heh). So the price of that Juyo may be much lower in the market (to the pleasure of the scholar in question). The Ryumon Nobuyoshi on my site: http://www.nihonto.ca/ryumon-nobuyoshi/ Is a very impressive piece with gorgeous koshirae, and when I sold it it was not yet Juyo but looked like it would easily pass. The owner received a lot of pressure from his friends to not buy the sword because it was "only Tokubetsu Hozon / too expensive for Tokubetsu Hozon." After getting Juyo it is the same sword. Juyo though confirms things that are speculative when we're all kind of stumbling around in the dark. You can see a blade and think it is fantastic but you're never sure of yourself... getting that sayagaki that raves about the blade and compliments in the zufu confirms that yes, you were right about it. Papers have to be looked at as confirmation of what you're observing rather than the deciding factor. If the confirmation is not there, it is not a denial, you may still be entirely right in valuing a blade highly. In this case, an important and highly rated smith from the middle Kamakura period with somewhere between 10 and 20 extant works, a gorgeous example of his craftsmanship, from a prestigious collection, with great koshirae (antique solid gold two piece habaki!)... my opinion is that you have to be really silly to look past all of that, and focus on the Tokubetsu Hozon papers as the salient point. Of course with it passing Juyo now the question becomes Tokubetsu Juyo haha. I'll draw on my favorite example of the most pricey sword ever shown to me for sale ($500,000), everyone had a laugh at the papers ("only Hozon"). Ubu, signed, flawless Hisakuni. Oh to be Bill Gates.

Kiyomaro doesn't do much for me either. He's pretty pricey though, this is not overly expensive for his work. Market is never wrong, only individuals :-).

Technically, there are no shows. There are however some groups you can join in which you will get access to study and be able to see some good swords. You can join the Toronto Token Kai via the JCCC http://www.jccc.on.ca I believe. Ken Noma is the president. The people involved in the TTK are great, they care about swords deeply. Once there ask about the Rochester Study Group. I don't throw around compliments, that said, there are some very impressive skills available in this group. I brought them five good swords to kantei and they nailed all of them without too much fuss. Study is done as a group rather than as a gathering of individuals which is their spin on things, and I believe to be a very valuable learning tool. I would be very cautious about joining up with anyone else, especially anyone who claims to be a "sensei" of some sort. Sensei who claims to be teaching you with one hand and selling you treasures with the other hand might be teaching you something important that is not what you think you are learning. There is a very small set of swords displayed (poorly) at the Royal Ontario Museum. It is not worth a special trip but if you are walking by it's worth popping in to see.

That is a great signature analysis from Ludolf. Hard to contribute more than that. My own comments would be that the sword seems very well made, the jihada is beautiful and the hamon seems elegant. The jihada looks like it is somewhat non-standard for the smith as you'd be expecting more of a konuka Yamashiro-like looking jigane without such prominent chikei. But if Ludolf is right and this is very young work for the smith it would be more likely that it is made before he finalizes his typical style. The most important thing is that the sword be well-made in accordance with the standing of the smith, when you are looking at it, in that way it should confirm the signature. A big signature on a poorly made sword is less likely to be correct. Please keep us posted, I agree that the item should be submitted to shinsa. You could start with the online version of the NTHK shinsa, but I would be wanting to send the sword to Japan. Rich Turner who offered help will know everything needed for your case.

The scanner method is going to give you far more reliable results that you can reproduce with minimal variation than doing photography will. Also, it is easier and cheaper to build/go that route than it is the photographic route. Lastly you will get higher resolution with the scanner method. I think the photographic method can give a better and more natural feeling than the scanner will, but from a study point of view that doesn't mean a whole lot. Anyway, unless you want to really devote a serious amount of time and effort, I'd highly recommend the scanner method.

Good observation Rich... someone made a transposition typo somewhere along the line. I'd suspect that maybe that was meant to line up with a late Muromachi period era as well. Either Taiei 1521 or Tenmon 1532.

I think it is from the late Muromachi period. The nakago looks to be the right age and the pictures make it seem to be saki-zori. The date that you got of "August, 1351" already sounds bad... with no date on the blade, how does someone come up with the month? Anyway, this form is not correct at all for 1351, this blade would then be a very small kodachi and is signed on the wrong side for this. Plus we don't really see the Sukesada line until much later. So I'd say that you have an early example of a wakizashi from the late koto period, or else it is a smallish katate-uchi.

WD-40 is actually mostly a solvent rather than a lubricating agent. The solvent helps it penetrate and dissolve old gunk, and the lubricating agent then remains behind. The solvent in the case of WD-40 is mineral spirits. So your sword is probably coated with something that is on the blade like a wax and is interfering with the light. When you are using your cleaning kit you are not getting it off, when you sprayed it with WD-40 you dissolved it somewhat. The lubricating agent of WD-40 is mineral oil, which is what we use to oil swords anyway. So I think you are pretty safe if you want to go back and use WD-40 to attempt to get the rest of the gunk off, however you may want to instead use mineral spirits (which you can get at any hardware store or home depot). Use in a well ventilated area and use gloves. I'm interested in your results so please post...

Glad you like it Leroy... I'm hoping to get started on the Soshu volume next... hopefully I can make it to San Francisco in August and get some photos done.

Page 92 :-).

I think I will just round up various pieces of advice already presented and say: 1. do nothing to the mei to begin with 2. write him a letter, include a photograph and ask if the signature was not made due to a flaw 3. ask him when he's coming to the USA next, and if he would perform a sayagaki for the sword at that time When you get the response about why it is not signed, and you know when he is coming, then if the sword was not signed just out of Japanese regulations, you might ask at that point if he will sign it on his next trip to the USA. I would be prepared to give him a gift if he signs the sword for you. Something nice like an XO cognac plus an envelope with some money. Considering that if your mumei Yoshindo becomes a signed one it will have dramatically appreciated *plus* normally the smith would be seeing that money because he didn't sign it, he sold it cheap. Alternatively, you may ask if you could pay to have it signed... I don't know if that is bad etiquette though. I would not ask anything about getting a signature until you know why it was not signed. If it is due to it being below standard, then I'd ask him for advice on preserving the marker. For me I would probably use shellac or lacquer. Test a small part first to see if it will dissolve, either of those could possibly dissolve the marker. Any of these wood finishes are primarily composed of solvents to keep them liquid, and it is the boiling off of the solvent that causes them to dry and then harden. I like shellac as it is very easy to remove if in the future you don't want it, lacquer will not come off as easily. Shellac you just dip in alcohol and it will dissolve. I'd test first on some marker on a paper before considering touching the sword...

Hi Mike, I have touched the blade of two different swords (by accident) and regretted it immensely (both for blade, and myself). Individual blades will be in varying states of polish, and so some will be sharper than others. Someone else posted a picture of what happened to his hand with accidental contact recently... look at the "don't get casual" thread :-).