Takezo

That's interesting, I had never considered sending it in for the same grade. Actually, the other day I was thinking about Juyo in general and it seems like it is really more useful (at least partially) for mumei blades in particular. Like what is the real point of putting an ubu, pristine, signed and dated Tadayoshi 3 or something similar though the entire ladder? After Hozon, you already know what it is, it's been verified and I can't imagine the market doesn't understand what the value would be as is. Why would you need NBTHK Juyo shinsa to tell you your ubu, pristine, signed and dated Tadayoshi 3 is an ubu, pristine, signed and dated Tadayoshi 3? . I know there is some prestige and nuance to that, but as a whole, Juyo shinsa seems way. more useful for mumei blades, where actual attribution and research needs to go into identifying and preserving mystery blades.

I wanted to circle back on this topic and think about submitting my TokuHo mumei Enju instead. Wanted to get some general thoughts. I can actually find many examples of similar blades passing Juyo as this. I would also like to get some clarity on the NBTHK attribution it has (Enju) vs the Fukunaga Suiken sayagaki attribution (Awataguchi Yoshimasa), from NBTHK...like if it passed, would they still attribute it to Enju? I read a Darcy thread on here that said - "It has happened that Enju has been reattributed as Awataguchi. More than once." so who knows . This seems like a perfect test for that, with the opposing sayagaki. Will post some more pics soon, but blade is covered in chikei and displays strong uruoi jigane and a sparkling bright ko-nie hamon. Condition is wonderful. I also posted this blade in my other thread about Yamashiro. All things considered, a mumei Yamashiro (estimated 1288-1346) blade like this might make way more sense than the one originally posted in the thread.

@Ray Singer is the red Koto Afu translation still available?

I actually agree with you on all of this. I am also a fan of Tsukada-san and Touken Komachi. Wish I could have bought this one from them: https://www.toukenkomachi.com/index_en_tachi&katana_A030817.html Only reason I say Seiyudo is that I think given all the tradeoffs, their sets of images let me comprehend the overall qualities of swords the fastest. They really need to add angles and at least one alternative lighting set though. That being said, having 3 swords from them I can tell you that if you hold your sword up to their photos, they are pretty much identical, in color etc. At least from that angle. I think I just trust them the most at this point because every sword I have seen in person at their shop or bought, has been flawless or nearly flawless, never have to worry about quality there because they have a really high bar for their swords. They also tell you, proactively if there is anything going on, even a little polish scratch without having to ask. Aoi Art on the other hand will sell you anything without a peep about any existing problems . You really have to pull it out of them. Pablo's site I always forget about as I have never bought from there. I think the format of his transaction has always been a bit tedious and embellished to me, but his photos are truly top notch.

You are not wrong sir

Their photos absolutely suck in general (except for viewing general nioiguchi and hamon hataraki/quality). Seiyudo has the best out of anybody imo. They are literally 1 for 1 with what you see in real life. I ended up purchasing a Rai Kunimitsu Juyo by proxy.

Wow this helps! I would actually say in general it is easily equal and probably above these in quality. Cannot really tell on that last Hitatsura looking one since it is just an oshigata. That is not to say that past Juyo session indicate current Juyo sessions. I would be curious to see what passed in Juyo 65.

I would be interested to see some references to compare against with the full matching signature 備前国往長船五郎友衛門尉清光作 if you have them!

The Kiyomitsu or the Sukesada?

I agree, Sue Bizen has some outstanding pieces. Yeah the Sukesada above is definitely not getting submitted for Juyo, but the Gorōzaemon Kiyomitsu might, depending on the Tanobe sayagaki being done. It is great to have these numbers, and your insights into these things are always super helpful! Interesting also that Sesko's index does not rank Yosōzaemon as Saijo, but it seems Fujishiro does? In any case Gorōzaemon and Yosōzaemon were contemporaries and both the top smiths of their branches (Kiyomitsu and Sukesada respectively) KIYOMITSU (清光), Eishō (永正, 1504-1521), Bizen – “Bishū Osafune Kiyomitsu” (備州長船清光), “Bizen no Kuni-jū Osafune Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu” (備前国住長船五郎左衛門尉清光), “Bizen no Kuni-jū Osafune Nomura Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu” (備前国住長船野村五郎左衛門尉清光), real name Nomura Gorōzaemon (野村五郎左衛門), son of Katsuhei Kiyomitsu, wazamono, jōjō-saku SUKESADA (祐定), 1st gen. Yosōzaemon, Eishō (永正, 1504-1521), Bizen – “Bizen no Kuni-jū Osafune Yosōzaemon no Jō Sukesada saku” (備前国住長船与三左衛門尉祐定作), “Bizen no Kuni-jū Osafune Hikobei dōshi Yosōzaemon no Jō Sukesada” (備前国住長船彦兵衛同子与三左衛門尉祐定, joint work of Yosōzaemon no Jō Sukesada and his father Hikobei Sukesada), “Bizen no Kuni-jū Osafune Sukesada saku” (備前国住長船祐定作), “Bizen no Kuni-jū Nakagawa Yosōzaemon Sukesada saku” (備前国住中川与三左衛門祐定作), son of the 1st gen. Hikobei Sukesada (彦兵衛祐定), real name Nakagawa Yosōzaemon (中川与三左衛門), he was the best of all Sukesada smiths, he signed the character for “Yo” (与) in the old variant (與) but in a kind of abbreviated manner which reminds of the character (烏), suguha with ko-ashi, gunome-chōji, hitatsura, notare, koshi-no-hiraita midare, long yō, occasionally a long kaeri, ō-wazamono ◎

I agree, if it is gimei, it is still a really a nice blade and the Mei is pretty damn good!

@Jussi Ekholm needs to weigh in on this one - I know from his past threads he supports signed and dated BIzen blades. I will post the Tanobe sayagakai soon, once finished.

Aoi has a Kotetsu for around $390k right now if you have some cash to burn: https://www.aoijapan.com/katana-nagasone-okisato-nyudo-kotetsu-with-saidan-mei45th-nbthk-juyo-token/

Besides what others have said, I personally think the biggest problem is the lack of deep file marks on the nakago with your blade. Every single Sandai I have seen has had very aggressive filing marks. You can see my blade below, but also the one linked above has the same deep filing.

Here are the high resolution links: https://web.archive.org/web/20251104215232/https://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2024/24555-2.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20251104215411/https://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2024/24555-3.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20251104215411/https://www.aoijapan.com/img/sword/2024/24555-4.jpg https://web.archive.org/web/20250907044511/https://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashihizen-kuni-mutsu-no-kami-tadakatsu-tokubetsu-hozon-token/

@2devnul So the jigane will actually be done slightly differently on blades that do not have suguha hamon. For Tadayoshi blades with suguha, the jigane will be done in a very luxurious way, while the blades with hamon like yours will be done in slightly lessor way, for whatever reason. Maybe to let the hamon take more of the attention. I will post some more images of mine, but you should also inspect the images below, which are a Sandai Tadayoshi, with hamon like yours.

Good call! Will Tanobe sensei give an indication in regard to Juyo? I guess I am asking if it is a normal thing that he is alright with giving an opinion on?

@Lewis B I was able to confirm with Seiyudo the Tanobe sayagaki will be done.

I would have imagined that umegane patch was put on much later than the sword was made, but I could be wrong. I have also read pretty much everywhere that umegane is a pretty bad thing since it hides the real flaw and potentially creates a pocket of rust that is not reachable underneath, slowly eating your sword away.

Blade length(Cutting edge): 71.5cm Curve(SORI): 2.5cm Width at the hamachi(Moto-Haba): 3.22cm Thickness at the Moto-Kasane: 0.77cm Wide at the Kissaki(Saki-Haba): 2.55cm Thickness at the Saki-Kasane: 0.60cm

In general I don't think Aoi Art builds cobbled together koshirae for their blades. They deal in volume and I am pretty sure Tsuruta just gets these as-is for the most part as he runs all over the country picking up blades. That being said I almost always ask them to price the blade without koshirae and they usually knock off a few hundred to a few thousand USD depending on the piece. Sometimes its a more recently made or well kept koshirae though, and that is worth keeping.

I wanted to ask if anyone has sent a sword from Japan to the USA recently? The last one that came in for me was months ago and I have seen Aoi Art recently stopped using everything except for a carrier called OCS. Does anyone know what is really going on? Considering keeping my swords in Japan over there for a while until this clears up. Thanks

I think your suggestion for the Tanobe sayagaki is a must do! I will ask them to facilitate this. As for Juyo I am definitely tempted...any thoughts on if I should or even how long the blade would be held for (and out of my hands )?

I would be interested to see which ones if you could post some, that are koto and not mumei o-suriage. Original koshirae if we are talking koto seems questionable to me, but would love to see!