Hokke

Brian, do have a way to generate numbers on those members who have ONLY posted in the translation or classified sections? I would be curious to know how many people have come exclusively for those sections without any intention of participating in the forum as a whole. Coming from a large watch community, your idea of minimum posts before being able to access certain parts of the forum, is a popular tool. As for gold member only sections or clubs, I dont know why you presume that would cause a riot. Sure people may miss things, hence, the member upgrade and for clubs, if youre not invited, thats just how to world works. Just remember there are always unintended side effects that are foreseen. With respect to the idea of "bumping" posts, thats also pretty standard on other forums, however, some forums get bogged down when there are no limits. How many times you can bump and how many items can be bumped makes a difference. I am not a fan of being able to pin a post to the top.

Your enthusiasm is noted, and I can appreciate it. That said, I stand by my post. Just because it hasn't been done yet, means little, IMO. Is it possible smiths of old used materials other than those we know of today that aided them in their work, absolutely. Is it possible that whatever those materials were, they are no longer available in the modern day, sure. Are either of these likely, I have no idea. What I do know, is that there is......something.......that is missing allowing for these works to remain un-copied, but it is.....something, either skill or material, or both.

Just a point of clarification, Chernobyl is more irradiated not because it was a ground explosion vs elevated, but because of the amount of fissionable materials that were released when the reactor exploded. Reactors hold thousands of pounds of fuel versus the hundred+ in the bombs. That in combination with the type of radiation released and its half life, compared to that of the bombs, is why Pripyat is still a danger zone vs Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Hi Brano, I wouldn't say never, these smiths weren't "magical" by any stretch of the imagination. 20 years ago, no one thought there would be a day when we would be making diamonds of significant size and yet here we are. Chemistry and technique are recipes, nothing more. Once you have the recipe for both, it's game over. However, your answer is interesting and I appreciate you airing it. I dont know if I agree with it, because I honesty haven't given it much thought, but perhaps we all should. Just for clarification though and so I won't be taking up space in Colins thread, I just want to make sure you saw my original post in full. The question wasn't if there was someone out there making blades traditionally to a high quality. The question was if there was someone out there making blades of similar quality and trying to pass them as nihonto. Some members posted info on blades made in Japan that attempted the fraud, but no one as yet has referenced anyone outside of Japan, not in this thread at least. And so, it seems my question is answered for the time being. Anyway, I think I have hijacked Colins thread enough, so I digress, I appreciate everyone's input.

Absolutely Colin, I wasnt trying to hijack your thread, I assure you. I only meant to expand on the term fake since you rightly mentioned it. Cheap mass produced fakes are covered very well here with many sources of information. I just wanted to step it up and discuss less common fakes and if they exist.

Hello Brano, if you have a look at my original post, I defined “fake” as “a purposeful attempt to misrepresent a blade not of Japanese origin as nihonto, or even shinsakuto.” The caveat is that the fake is so well made, it was challenging to detect.

Thats interesting, I will have a look for the thread. That said, you indicated that these were made in Japan. Are you aware of any being produced outside of Japan to the same degree of detail?

In accordance with No. 3 on Colin’s list, has anyone ever encountered a “fake” that was so well done it had to be reviewed by peers to confirm. Lets assume fake to mean a purposeful attempt to misrepresent a blade not of Japanese origin as nihonto, or even shinsakuto. Im aware this is difficult to accomplish with nihonto since artificial aging is a trick not yet mastered, but that doesn't mean some haven't come close. Im curious because in the watch world this has become somewhat ordinary. It used to be that fakes could be spotted from a distance. Then, they needed only be held. As time passed, it required magnification on the outside. Now, we have super clones that are so well made, they must be opened and the smallest of differences must be identified. Ironically, we have replicas that actually perform better than the original in time keeping. So is anyone aware of such an effort?

Good to know, ill have to take a look

Reminds me of egyptian hieroglyphs. Specifically Akhenaton, father of Tutankhamun. His name was either completely removed, in an attempt to erase him from history or it was defaced to show contempt for his ideas and policies.

Very cool, had no idea they even made such things, but I definitely want one now.

With all due respect Bobby, you are correct until you actually encounter someone from either camp. I have not a seen a single occurrence of someone here "sneering at Juyo as toys for rich collectors". However, there are bold occurrences of "dismisses the lesser". This is done quite openly and proudly. At that point, all bets are off and its no longer BS. Yes, yes, we "should celebrate" nihonto and "not fight", and for the most part I think this is the case. All the more reason to call out a liar in truths clothing. Cancer has to be identified, before being treated.

I dont have a FB account, so im not familiar with the sections, but im surprised there is that much of a nihonto following. Didnt know that platform had turned into such a sales site.

Good question, perhaps it was a simple matter of volume. Or maybe because someone told him kanbun shinto, suriage blades with shallow sori were "paperweights".

damn....that was a deal....congrats to Rawa safe flying Hamfish

Um no, TFB, you made the statement, I simply pointed out your poor memory for having forgotten it. The only thing deep. deep down is your contempt for anyone who has the temerity to disagree with you. Describing nihonto purchases others have made or may make as "paperweights" is quite LITERALLY both looking down at someone AND something at the same time. Not to mention you accused a member of this forum for essentially being a thief. But you know all this TFB, and you arent the least bit bothered by it, which makes you a "special" kind of.........person.

Way to go TFB, what a short memory you have “Especially the people here like @Hokke @Matsunoki @jdawg221 @jawob i think between you guys if you can take all the paperweights off the market and souley focus on those, we'd all have a clearer view of what's really out there.”

Colin may have different reasoning but I understood it as: Many of these dealers have brick and mortar shops. Items are available for sale there first and if they do not sell, they are then posted online for the world to view. In some cases, dealers will post items for sale online in the native language section and then after a period of time will have them available in the translated sections.

Its an assumption that anyone purchasing a nihonto, is doing so based on specific blade qualities. As mentioned numerous times previously, there are those who purchase nihonto for other reasons, which include appearance, historic significance and authenticity, not to mention, price point. If you disagree then you are saying there are “rules” to owning nihonto, which is ridiculous.

I agree Colin, like you, I want this thread to remain open, so I will be as diplomatic as humanly possible.

How about we steer clear of assumptions in this thread and focus on general guidelines, which is exactly what has been done.

Great points Colin, exactly what newcomers should see to start them on their journey. IMO, this thread should be pinned to the top of the page.

I read your response very clearly, however, unless you have been granted the authority to answer for another member, I wasnt asking YOU anything. Maybe it wasn’t obvious. It looks like the author is addressing questions as I write this. So lets see if HE would like to respond or not. Either way makes no difference to me.

You are certainly entitled to see things however you wish and while I dont agree with your assessment, I accept that is certainly one way for my post to be interpreted. You mentioned something we ALL have encountered, which is making mistakes. But 100 of them in the same field of study, and not just regular mistakes but "expensive mistakes". I guess one would have to define "expensive" as its meaning is relative. But to me, an expensive mistake, in nihonto at least is $1k-5k. "Very expensive" is 5K or more. Is that what the author meant when describing "expensive"? I dont know, do you? But it's a legitimate question. Regardless of the number attached to the word, its still remarkable IMO, too have made that mistake 100 times. I really dont know why folks are skeptical of the question. So I'll tell you and everyone else, whatever the answer is, if he chooses to address it, WHATEVER it is, I will not respond or make any further effort to participate in this thread. I will ONLY do if I am asked a direct question looking for a serious answer. How's that? To reiterate, my question is simply this: How does someone make the same "expensive mistake", in one specific field, 100 times? Id REALLY like to know.

I dont know to what you are referring. Your question was legitimate as was mine. Consider ANY hobby or even occupation in life. To make such an abundance of mistakes in one specific field is noteworthy. If the goal of this thread is to better educate those new to collecting nihonto, it seems my question is quite relevant. I don't know, 100 expensive mistakes may be an indicator of lots of things. When I was a kid I had a friend that always over bought items wherever we were. If we were in a bakery he would buy two dozen doughnuts and only eat 1 or 2, throwing the rest away. If we went fishing, he would buy lures and not even use them because it was clear beforehand we were using live bait. It wasn't until I got a bit older that I realized he had a terrible relationship with his parents and his way of rebelling was to spend up all their money so they would get mad and show him some attention. As you can imagine he grew into a less than productive adult, but since he was a trust fund baby, it didnt really matter. Point is, he never had appreciation for what it took to ACTUALY earn money, so he spent it wildly and carelessly, one could say he made MANY expensive mistakes. Could that be an explanation? I don't know, but I dont know ANYONE, as an adult, that has made the same mistake 100 times. I was simply looking for some insight. I didnt use any profanity, or call anyone names; I didnt start a thread trying to bait someone into a meeting........none of that. Just a simple question, thats it.