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Now I would love to know why a portion of the date would be erased in such a way. It loooks to be done a long time ago with care.

Thank you @jawob 🙏 I cant believe how much attention this thread got . Very thankful of everyone who chipped in to help. I truly appreciate it and It made the process a lot more fun

@Sukaira Yea i ve accepted that I ll always have a Kiyomitsu 😆 And yes a lot of intense chikei and kinsuji.

I believe I ve finally settled on a sue bizen piece that came up on Samurai nippon . Messaged Komaki san and waiting for an invoice. https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/Q-325.html Bizen koku ju osafune Kiyomitsu Saku (Attributed to Magoemon Kiyomitsu ) Unfortunate that part of the date in missing but I think the attribution to Magoemon more than makes up for it and narrows down the production date. And a good length just over 71cm and a massive .88cm motokasane Dont really see any red flags but perhaps someone more experienced may catch something I missed

@Sukaira Nah not me 😆 beautiful steel but the shape isnt what im looking for

There s several good recent listings im looking into . Wish i could have them all 😅 There s am Aoi Norimitsu and a Kiyomitsu attributed to Magoemon that just came up on samurai nippon that I sent a message about. Hope they get back to me today. I never liked how little photos samurai nippon posts on their listing

Kinda back to square one with my search and this really caught my eye last week https://www.aoijapan.com/tachi-bishu-osafune-norimitsunbthk-tokubetsu-hozon-token/ Dont think i ve seen a Norimitsu with this graceful shape and jigane with so much mokume and running hada. Beautiful all around in my taste. Theres another Norimitsu dated 1445 that looks nothing like this one. How early could this one be realistically ?? I feel like it would be a great candidate for Tanobe sensei to get his opinion

Definitely not kamakura to my eye. And the kissaki is poorly done to an extreme. I wouldnt be surprised if it was a broken blade that s been reshaped by an amateur. Looks like it was a blade made for a cane like @ROKUJURO pointed out

Hi @Sukaira That one was on the market for a little while but it was for an outrageous price of around $10,000 usd. I guess someone found the package was worth it but I cant wrap my head around spending that much on a late muromachi suriage/mumei Kongo Hyoe despite it being my favorite school. Beautiful jigane tho !

Hi @lewis That Masanobu is very nice indeed. Im just very partial to Kongo Hyoe as a collector and ubu/signed is definitely a big plus since I have a suriage Ko Kongo Hyoe and a suriage signed Moritaka. I will most definitely confirm the TH certificate and other minor detail with Asahi Token

Hi @Jussi Ekholm or anyone else with info. Im starting the process purchasing a TokuHo ubu Kongo Hyoe blade signed " Minamoto Morihide Saku " https://www.asahitoken.jp/contents/01_token/details/token-B/B_sd394.html Everything about it screams late muromachi with the shorter nakago and fumbari. Tho it is rather long at almost 70cm. Which would be great to add since I have a Nanbokucho and early muromachi Kongo Hyoe. I do not have any info on a late muromachi Morihide in my record and the latest I have is Oei ( 1394 ) and Kyotoku ( 1455 ) from Sesko along with a Teiji from the index. Do you have any record of a later Kongo Hyoe Morihide in your records by chance ? If not I would guess this blade being from the around the 1455 timeline. Thank you as always -Kevin

Definitely a good one @Sukaira. It s one of the 4 blades im considering currently. Have limited $ to make one choice is no fun 😆

Beautiful polish by Moses. I ve never used him but I ve always admired his work. I am a big time lover of negare and any type of O hada and this is brought out in spectacular fashion here. It is the workmanship that confirms the skill of the artisan. Not the background of his training.

Hi @Jussi Ekholm Thank you so much for the insight as always 🙏🙏🙏 I always learn something new whenever you chime in 😄 I ve always seen Hokke Ichijo pinned at 1394 so this is valuable to know for future reference -Kevin

Thank you @Jussi Ekholm ! That is very intersting to know. I did not know that the nbthk can narrow down attributions from Hozon to TH. Would have been great if they indicated which Ichijo they thought this was as im aware there were 4 generations from Oei to Eisho

Hi @Lewis B As much as I love Hokke work, I was never able to get a clear understanding of their origin. There are reliable sources that say Sukekuni early nanbokucho, Kaneyuki, and Ichijo early muromachi. The 1st Ichijo was also supposedly either the son of Masie or a student of Sukekuni but I dont think that timeline would add up The NBTHK on this one says Hokke Ichijo specifically so I would think around 1394 at the earliest. Aoi also didnt mention what was written on the saya but it doesnt looklike a sayagaki by anyone notable Either way this is definitely a nice piece that has a lot of the things I like. Very stout and rustic with textured jigane

I may bid on it at the current price when it gets closer but the Ichijo attribution suggests this is an osuriage early muromachi blade Not nanbokucho like aoi often likes to suggest optimisticaly

Thank you @Hoshi Been using the app non stop daily 😁 And thank you @Natichu , saw that one last night and it s definitely worth a strong consideration

Great post @jdawg221 For me personaly, shinto just doesnt have any sort of appeal to collect. I have zero doubt a shinto/shinshinto/gendai sword would just about break any elegant chu/hoso suguha koto sword. And the comparisson is also kind of moot since they were generally designed for different purpose with koto leaning towards toughness for battle vs armor and shinto having the freedom of not needing to make blades that can withstand armored combat As a collector, I am heavily influenced by historical settings and the general mindset of that particular period. I am particularly drawn to schools/smiths associated with temples . Calm, rustic works that exudes power really speaks to me at a personal and spiritual level. To me that is artistic appeal in itself. The highly prized and flamboyant works like the ichimonji schools while nice to appreciate and study, isnt something I would ever collect. There has to be something that connects with me historically and asthetically. So I dont think the term "better" should be taken on a functional sense but rather it having a greater appeal for collectors. And while collectors all have their own reasons to collect from a certain time period, the general trend in how swords are priced heavily suggest koto blades are most desirable

Ah that ubu hokke was such a nice piece . Id but it in a heartbeat but didnt have $$ at the time

The characters look extremely off. And the sugata should be more sakizori. Not a lot of detail to be seen in the pic but I would bet my money on Shinshinto gimei

Techinically the ana can be oval/elongated and it wont compromise the security of the fit AS LONG AS the bottom of the tang fits tight and properly to the tsuka. The mekugi applies pressure downwards into the tsuka. Of course the mekugi needs to be tight and properly positioned to the bottom part of the ana

@Sukaira Oh i wish but my budget is about half of that currently 😆 dream blade tho

@Jussi Ekholm Speaking of Hoju , what do you think of this ?? https://www.samurai-nippon.net/SHOP/Q-124.html Dont think i ve ever seen anything like this

And is sayagaki ever forged/faked ? I ve never personally came accross one but like all things valuable id assume there have been attempts