cabowen

It is one thing to confiscate fake or counterfeit goods from the importers, it is quite another to confiscate them from a customer who has bought them retail. No..they cannot legally stop you in the street and confiscate your fake Nikes or 511 clothing. That is something entirely different.Brian I simply mentioned the confiscation of counterfeit goods in Japan to establish the fact that the government in Japan does not as a matter of course turn a blind eye to the issue, as some countries do. They have laws relating to online sales of counterfeit items, as well as on the import of counterfeit goods. Both could come into play in this case if applied. The point being, it is not unreasonable to think that something more could be done. Well, there is this: All I see is concerned discussion...where is the panic?

It looks shinshinto to me...Checking, I find two smiths in Shinshinto with this mei: one from Tosa, whose mei kiri is different, and this one: Shigehiro (重弘), Keiō (慶応, 1865-1868), Ōshū – „Tsugaru-jū Shigehiro“ (津軽住重弘), „Shigehiro“ (重弘), Toki family (土岐), smith of the Hirosaki fief (弘前藩) which was ruled by the Tsugaru family (津軽) from Markus' meikan. I can not find any oshigata for this smith but it is a possibility you may wish to explore. Also, there are plenty of meikan more smiths in shinshinto. There is a real possibility he is simply not recorded.

Sorry to hear this but unfortunately it seems to be part of the game...

I have seen some licensed percussion firearms in Japan. Some shinsa'in are more "friendly" than others. Hope you have good luck....

Possibly one issue is the sheer volume of inquiries and the time it would take to handle them. There must be a hundred thousand (or more?) H and TH kantei-sho out there. The NBTHK is rather small- they don't have more than 6 or so people in the main office. I suspect they would be overwhelmed with calls, many from outside of Japan from people who do not speak the language. I would venture it would be a lot of trouble. I assume they have all of these in a computer data base. What they could do is put it on line with a subscription service that lets people check themselves. I can't imagine that being that difficult, then again, in Japan a secret is a "beautiful thing" and in my experience, they have a strong cultural aversion to that sort of thing.... It seems that counterfeit goods are routinely confiscated in Japan: "According to the Ministry of Finance and the National Police Agency (NPA), the number of cases involving the confiscation of fake brand goods and merchandise totaled 28,135, a number both 5.7% higher than the previous year and the highest ever recorded. Of the total number of cases, 25,844, or about 91.9% of them were goods manufactured in China." Also, Japan has been active in legislating against counterfeiting: http://www.kyowapatent.co.jp/info/article/data/120402_r01.pdf While I understand Guido's comment, one would think a quasi-governmental entity like the NBTHK would be able to find a way to do more than nothing to remove these from circulation or mark them in some way as fake...

There are said to be 6 or so generations of Hiromasa. I would think you would need to compare to all of them before you can say anything with any confidence.

Congrats indeed! While the nie deki of the blade may point to pre-Muromachi, the length of this blade, even if machi-okuri slightly (is it?), would seem to be at odds with what is usually seen in Nanbokucho period mainline Soshu den....???

No doubt...

He got that from this site, though he doesn't mention that... http://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20221

No matter how carefully you clean the inside of the saya, without actually opening it and checking, you are rolling the dice if you put a polished blade into an old saya...

If the only thing that was changed was the photo, all one would need to do is to compare the length and mei to that written in the kantei-sho. It would be an obvious fake and there would be no issue. Clearly, if dealers or museums can't recognize these fakes, and you have to call the NBTHK to verify, the forgers are doing more than just changing the photo....

The current dealing environment, when it comes to the higher end, is heavily dependent on papers, especially outside of Japan. It is a rare dealer who forgoes profit to preserve history, but it does happen. I agree with your opinion; I know there are those out there who collect blades rather than papers and hopefully, works such as these will find homes with those who recognize the intrinsic quality and are comfortable leaving it at that.

Look at the current value of the prior NBTHK papers and maybe you will start to see why people in Japan are concerned..... In any case, I posted this as a head's up for those that may have occasion to buy a papered sword. Make of it what you will. I have spoken to several people in Japan, thus I know first hand that there are those who are alarmed and think this could be a very big deal. Of course, everyone is entitled to their opinion, specious or not, so feel free to disagree. I am just reporting what I have been told. Myself, I will wait and see where it goes...

Chris, The above comment might be misinterpreted suggesting the NBTHK was in some way involved creating the situation to generate new business While I am sure that wasnt your intention prhaps you could confirm. regards Paul I am in no way accusing the NBTHK of creating the situation. How they choose to handle it is, however, entirely up to them....

I think that is the scenario that is upsetting so many- all the current papers basically become worthless. Brilliant business model....

There haven't been any instances of fake NTHK-NPO papers that I am aware of... This could get really ugly....glad I collect gendaito....

Thank you very much Kunitaro san....

Different smith Stephen-the one in my index worked in Tokyo and made few swords.

From what has been said, it appears they are using an original paper so they are very close indeed. One reason that people are upset would seem to be the fact, as I understand it, that you can't just call the NBTHK...they want to see the paper and sword to verify.... Let me repeat that I am reporting this second hand. I have not seen the original info as posted in the Token Bijutsu the last two issues. If someone has the last two issues and wishes to post this, I will try to verify. I have heard it from more than one Japanese source so I have some confidence in the truth of it or I wouldn't have posted it....

They will not reissue Hozon or TH. For Juyo, they will not reissue the original paper, but will reissue a verification paper.

Archives are not the issue as they have extensive records. To date, however, they will not comment unless they have the suspect paper and sword in hand. I always wondered why they would not reissue a lost paper if requested by the original applicant. They could, but they won't.

If buyers/sellers can't trust or verify papers, this uncertainty has the potential to become a huge issue. Stay tuned, there will be more to come I am afraid...

Anyone see this in the last two issues of the NBTHK's "Token Bijutsu"? I have heard that there are now fake Hozon and Tokubetsu Hozon kantei-sho out there. The papers are real but the photos/seal have been faked. Apparently these came to light when people submitted swords for higher level papers; when the NBTHK checked the records for the lower level paper, there were none... The NBTHK is advising those with concern to send the papers and sword to them for inspection. Not much help to those outside of Japan. From what I hear, there are some unhappy people in Japan. There is a concern that if this becomes a big enough issue, the NBTHK will change their papers, again...

The definitive source of research on the Muramasa line, as far as I am aware, is the entry in volume 5 of Dr. Fukunaga's Nihonto Dai Hyakka Jiten.

Try Nagayama Kokan's "Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords"...