SwordGuyJoe

All, I am writing because I came across on eBay a "lady`s kaiken (suicide dagger)" Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-sword-tant ... 53de7cf92b. I am curious, as I have never heard of these, what the difference between a tanto and a lady's kaiken is. If asked what this blade was, I quickly and confidently would have said a tanto - and incorrectly(?). Please read this as me questioning myself and not questioning the seller. I appreciate the insight.

Kane something. But not sure the second character.

I think that you did really quite well. More than likely a showato piece, but not necessarily, and a showa period Wakizashi? Very rare! I didn't get any indication from the kissaki, that it was shortened. Also, the lack of a yokote isn't too surprising. The attention given to blades during the polish process wasn't what many blades deserved - and conversely, in some situations more attention than lower quality pieces deserve. Nice job!

It's Kanemichi (Mei = Noshu Seki Ju Nin Kanemichi Saku). See attached - look familiar (Slough's, pg's 46-48)? He was a smith of some repute and was a 2 Million Yen rated smith. Any pics of the blade?

Nothing to put you in your place about - you're right, he's wrong. I believe the blade is Toshiharu - http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/toshharu.jpg - although I couldn't tell you anything about the guy. I found one in Seki named Mori Toshiharu.

From your original post: Could you please post the inscription on the other side of the nakago for date translation? You could even give it a shot yourself (http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/kanji/nengo.htm). Also, Jean is right on the translation and the star stamp indicates that your blade was made by a Rikugun Jumei Tosho (http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/gendai2.htm). If you knew this, I apologize for telling you something you already know.

Showato does not necessarily mean machine made. It means not traditionally made. Some would say this is just the forging process and not materials, but some would say it extends through the forging process and all the way to the raw material. Meaning that a gendai blade could be crafted from non-tamahagane steel. Also, most WWII smiths were at least assisted by machines and most did not use tamahagane. So depending on the definition of "Traditional" most WWII swords are showato, not gendaito (even the Yasukuni smiths did use strictly tamahagane in their swords). When I speak to your sword, I say that I believe it's showato, I am not speaking to whether it was touched by a machine - although I would assume it was. I believe your blade was partially handmade, quenched in oil - not water. This reduced the amount of rejected blades, as the water quenching cause a radical decrease in temp and cracks blades far easier than oil. When I talk about your kissaki, I am saying that it is not formed well - although the tip missing is a much bigger problem - meaning, there is not a well defined yokote. This indicates - in my opinion at least - that the blade was not given much attention in the polishing process, leading me to the fact that it wasn't worth dedicating the time to (i.e. Showato, not a traditionally forged Gendaito). Please be sure to read the assumptions above and also that this is my opinion alone and I ask that you interpret it as such. To truly understand the quality of a blade a person needs to examine it in hand.

Even machine made showato will have yasurime. I have a concern about your katana. In the posted pic of the nakago, you can see what appears to be a crack. Perhaps its a bad pic. Also - and this may be attributable to a bad photo - but the kissaki isn't well formed/non-existent. Better pictures may sway a person, but first pass, this looks to be showato. Edit: I neglected to re-post the photo

That is unfortunate, but it could have been worse - much, much worse. A tsuka is easily and fairly inexpensively remade, rewrapped, and made whole. If it would have been the other end, where the saya shattered and you lost the kissaki, that would have been the unthinkable.

Have you ever seen an Emura or Nagamitsu (assuming you are talking about Ichihara and not Endo) with a stamp (other than a star for Nagamitsu)? I have not.

All, Here is a Seki Stamped, NTHK papered, gendaito blade by Kanefusa. Just wanted to post it to bolster some of the previous conversations on numerous posts that stamped blade is never gendaito, but always showato. Never say never: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... SS:US:1123

A little late, but I agree with Nagahiro (永弘).

I would say it's not your guy because of the radical deviation from one mei to the other, not stamped or no stamp. There are many smiths whose blades received stamps as well as those that didn't - Kanezane is a good example. Even comparing mei could prove to point you in the wrong direction, with students, professional mei cutters, and the smiths carving mei, certainly there are differences.

I would be more than willing to participate in the shinsa of those... pieces...

In my humble opinion, stamp or not, I believe to be fake. The quality is so poor, that I couldn't even blame it on end of the war. After all, they still had the exact same molds/stamps for their gunto tsubas, so the look/appearance would be the same, I would think the content (metal mix) may be different. The only thought - and now I am trying to think of how this could be authentic - would be that this tsuba was created in an occupied island where they did not have access to the same tsuba molds/stamps (I am not sure how they 'minted' their tsuba, other than saying they weren't carved).

There was a Minamoto Yoshiharu forging in Showa, but I doubt it's your guy. Here is a link to his signature http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/yoshharu.jpg from Dr. Stein's Oshigata page (very helpful when away from references! http://home.earthlink.net/~ttstein/index.htm). If it is a problem posting link, please remove and accept my most humble apologies.

Agreed

Especially since a faked Yasumitsu would be a pretty expensive lesson!

While the mei and date have some variation, in my opinion they are either authentic or the carver is VERY good at carving this mei and date style. The yasurime are kiri (horizontal), so that matches. Since there are no pictures, the other things that you would be looking for is a kengata nakago-jiri and suguha hamon. If either of these two qualifiers are not met, in my opinion this is a very good gimei. If it meets both of those, then in my humble opinion, this blade is legitimate.

While I am sure there are quite a few gi-mei gendaito/showato blades out there, I am not sure I understand your question. Are you implying these gi-samurai ( ) would apply a mei of gendai smiths or shinshinto, shinto, etc.? I would think that they would apply the mei of an older smith if at all, but I would also think that they would be smart enough to know the newly applied mei would stand out significantly on a shinto blade, as well as a mumei gendai blade marked with an important shinto smith's name would stand out as just much. I think that these days in the states, there are pockets of people who are knowledgeable about swords - I think we are in the pocket. However, in pre-WWII Japan, there were many who were knowledgeable, as it was a pretty considerable industry. I would think these not-quite-samurai would be wasting their time trying to apply a mei. I would think these folks would be the ones being taken in by a counterfeiter, but who knows? You could be right

Yes it was. Thought about bidding until I saw that it was from China.

I have seen a few Kanenao blades and almost bought one. Very good looking, feels strong in hand, but you won't find nearly anything on him (I have looked). Every time I see one, I think I should buy it, but the lack of documentation makes me hesitate. Could we see some photos of the blade itself?

Would need to see more to be able to help.

While the stamp is obscured by corrosion, I'm pretty sure it's a Seki stamp.

I can't recall who was looking for a Slough's, but one is listed on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Japanese-Samurai-Sw ... 3ef9a1b250)