Jcstroud

Appears to be the same stamp what do you think?

Does it have any stamped nunbers or modified roman numerals? would like to see them to compare.likely they were working in lots of 100 maybe.

After much research this is what I have found: Inaba Kanetoshi was a student of Watanabe Kanenaga as was his younger brother Matsubara Shozo they both used the swordname Inaba according to Malcolm Cox's pdf.Matsubara Shozo was Kaigun Jumei Tosho making swords for Toyokawa his brother an rjt smith for the IJA .his last address was kisogawa-cho haguri-gun in aichi-ken which is close to inaba-cho.! he also used the same filemark pattern as his teacher Watanabe Kanenaga it is a possibility that he also signed as Toyosuke.

I had one just like before it got confiscated looks legitimate to me they made those starting in the 1880 s

Hey Bruce does that include souvenir swords as well since they also are "tenshozan collected and toyokawa approved?

Reminds me of work: If it aint broke dont fix it!

In the ohmura study he quotes 4 different fomulas18 % chromium8%nickle,17% chromium7%1%alloy,16% chromium and last 13 %chromium with0.3%carbon.This would explain the varied levels of nakago oxidation.amongst other things as well.

Please keep in mind that what happened on the day of manufacture can only be known with an untouched sword.plain and simple.over time all things change.Change being one of the few true constants.

Are we talking about souvenir swords or late war guntos? The topic of naval landing forces swords that saw combat? The reason I ask the question : is it likely that a souvenir sword would have mixed. number fittings if all was original and unmodified?

We could all be overthinking this thing.normally on documented numbers matching swords using3 different number systems you can be reasonably assured the assembly is original.

Now I am going to take the analytical approach to answer the questions you have:1. Fitting of tsuba wood,seppas,fuchi, oseppas,andthe drilling of the mekugi-ana must happen before the tsuka can be wrapped not to mention installation of the kabuto-gane.likely they were working in lots of 100.the process is similar to fitting metal taper pins in machinery shafts.it makes sense that the fitted parts had to be marked for reassembly after the tsuka wrap.to keep the freshly plated parts from getting mixed up.

Personnally I dont think the US Army restricted the type of forging after the war but the only authorised forge allowed to operate as you know was Tenshozan Tanrenjo and their specialty was Fujiwara Kanenaga formula antirust special steel. That doesnt mean the defiant backwoods boys were not still doin their thang. .

Question for you John : is your Kanehide a souvenir sword or wartime gendaito? Would like to compare nakagos for the sake of the study thanks.

I think one aspect up until now has been largely ignored is the presence of green paint in the area of anchor stamp and its significance.since almost all have it as well

First time i have seen a tassle tussle😁

Are you guys talking about this photo?

Ok got an idea lets call them: TOYOSACO-TO' 😊

Surely a person of your expertise would consider these well established facts rather than relying on mere conjecture. (1.)It is clearly a "souvenir sword" produced and sold by Tenshozan Tanrenjo . (2.)Tenshozan before the wars end were producing 10 swords a month by contract with the IJN These swords clearly had a different mei cutter. (3.)Zenhiro Hattori had a well established sword collection network working with the IJN during the war and clearly used the same after the wars end. Proven by the numbers from December19 1945 to April 12th,1946 Tenshozan aka the Japanese Naval Sword Company delivered the first 2650 swords to the US ARMY TOKYO PX. This clearly shows they were outsourcing .Kamakura did not have the capacity. (4.)The mei of Toyosuke in my opinion combined with the small 4mm fishhook barbed circled anchor stamp indicates Seki area sourcing.these combined with tsuka markings indicate Inaba shrine origin.imho.

So I take it you are saying Tenshozan Tanrenjo used the name Toyosuke to avoid embarassment because they were selling swords of quality to the enemy only two months after the wars end.? Why sign it at all? Granted the mei are nearly identical but they are not.why were some cut off and some not? No question that all but one were cut by the same hand I would bet. It is not my intention to bring shame on anyone,on the contrary to bring honor to an unknown swordsmith whose work was extraordinary .If you disagree then so be it.

Yes I posted it years ago and until now has been an oddity of sorts due to the mixed army navy fittings and other unorthodox characteristics and have been since then trying to find out who was this person. If indeed he was a person. The strange thing is it is still a mystery as in the begining but we all have learned a great deal since but were not givin up the faith.

Question: in your personal experience how many of these Toyosuke blades have you seen? we may have by now perhaps records of 10 of them. In respect to the "Souvenir Swords" many more.In trying to guage the level of production more input is needed.I do realise there are several possibilities in repect to this "Swordsmith" My intent is to simply ask help to find the truth if at all possible. All help is truly appreciated. Thank you.

I being a mechanic,technician for many years recognise things such as filemark patterns and inscriptions . In respect to these,blade shape it tends to indicate the work of an individual due to the conformity of construction . Diamond crosshatching is not the predominant pattern during this period. But admit it we really dont know until the facts come in. maybe one day ........

Quote : Comparing all that Toyo Suke mei i think it was an company not a single smith. Maybe one of these companies which produce before the war tires and fabrics, during the war war supplies and after the war they made new start in the old buissiness like Toyobo (Toyo Boseki Kwaisha), Toyo, Toyo Rubber, Toyo Chemicals and other After careful consideration of the recently discovered US army declassified documents saying there was a contract to buy 8000 samarai swords from Tenshozan tanrenjo combined with the well known Hattori sword network gathering surplus swords directly after the end of the war. In my humble opinion Toyosuke was not a company but a very good swordsmith whose work was extremely consistent. And dangerously sharp even after all these years without a polish. No one knows if he suvived the bombing of Toyokawa or not. For this reason he deserves to be remembered respectfully everyone wants that.

Wow what a nice find! This would be the first wartime Toyosuke Kaigunto I have seen in full dress ,second I have seen with an uncut nakago,same diamond crosshatch ,same 4mm fishhook barbed anchor stamp ! The overall consistency of construction is far better than most imho. As far as who was Toyosuke well...it has been a mystery for many years now. Question: have you noticed any special marks or writing on the tsuka or anything that might help in determining point of origin? My thoughts are probably from Inaba shrine near Gifu castle but looking for more evidence. Thankyou for sharing and helping with the study! John