Jcstroud

Question for you John : is your Kanehide a souvenir sword or wartime gendaito? Would like to compare nakagos for the sake of the study thanks.

I think one aspect up until now has been largely ignored is the presence of green paint in the area of anchor stamp and its significance.since almost all have it as well

First time i have seen a tassle tussle😁

Are you guys talking about this photo?

Ok got an idea lets call them: TOYOSACO-TO' 😊

Surely a person of your expertise would consider these well established facts rather than relying on mere conjecture. (1.)It is clearly a "souvenir sword" produced and sold by Tenshozan Tanrenjo . (2.)Tenshozan before the wars end were producing 10 swords a month by contract with the IJN These swords clearly had a different mei cutter. (3.)Zenhiro Hattori had a well established sword collection network working with the IJN during the war and clearly used the same after the wars end. Proven by the numbers from December19 1945 to April 12th,1946 Tenshozan aka the Japanese Naval Sword Company delivered the first 2650 swords to the US ARMY TOKYO PX. This clearly shows they were outsourcing .Kamakura did not have the capacity. (4.)The mei of Toyosuke in my opinion combined with the small 4mm fishhook barbed circled anchor stamp indicates Seki area sourcing.these combined with tsuka markings indicate Inaba shrine origin.imho.

So I take it you are saying Tenshozan Tanrenjo used the name Toyosuke to avoid embarassment because they were selling swords of quality to the enemy only two months after the wars end.? Why sign it at all? Granted the mei are nearly identical but they are not.why were some cut off and some not? No question that all but one were cut by the same hand I would bet. It is not my intention to bring shame on anyone,on the contrary to bring honor to an unknown swordsmith whose work was extraordinary .If you disagree then so be it.

Yes I posted it years ago and until now has been an oddity of sorts due to the mixed army navy fittings and other unorthodox characteristics and have been since then trying to find out who was this person. If indeed he was a person. The strange thing is it is still a mystery as in the begining but we all have learned a great deal since but were not givin up the faith.

Question: in your personal experience how many of these Toyosuke blades have you seen? we may have by now perhaps records of 10 of them. In respect to the "Souvenir Swords" many more.In trying to guage the level of production more input is needed.I do realise there are several possibilities in repect to this "Swordsmith" My intent is to simply ask help to find the truth if at all possible. All help is truly appreciated. Thank you.

I being a mechanic,technician for many years recognise things such as filemark patterns and inscriptions . In respect to these,blade shape it tends to indicate the work of an individual due to the conformity of construction . Diamond crosshatching is not the predominant pattern during this period. But admit it we really dont know until the facts come in. maybe one day ........

Quote : Comparing all that Toyo Suke mei i think it was an company not a single smith. Maybe one of these companies which produce before the war tires and fabrics, during the war war supplies and after the war they made new start in the old buissiness like Toyobo (Toyo Boseki Kwaisha), Toyo, Toyo Rubber, Toyo Chemicals and other After careful consideration of the recently discovered US army declassified documents saying there was a contract to buy 8000 samarai swords from Tenshozan tanrenjo combined with the well known Hattori sword network gathering surplus swords directly after the end of the war. In my humble opinion Toyosuke was not a company but a very good swordsmith whose work was extremely consistent. And dangerously sharp even after all these years without a polish. No one knows if he suvived the bombing of Toyokawa or not. For this reason he deserves to be remembered respectfully everyone wants that.

Wow what a nice find! This would be the first wartime Toyosuke Kaigunto I have seen in full dress ,second I have seen with an uncut nakago,same diamond crosshatch ,same 4mm fishhook barbed anchor stamp ! The overall consistency of construction is far better than most imho. As far as who was Toyosuke well...it has been a mystery for many years now. Question: have you noticed any special marks or writing on the tsuka or anything that might help in determining point of origin? My thoughts are probably from Inaba shrine near Gifu castle but looking for more evidence. Thankyou for sharing and helping with the study! John

Borrowed this picture from war relics post Toyosuke # 87 also a souvenir sword by appearance

https://imgur.com/a/o5BLSt4 above. You will find the url link to all the photos of the Toyosuke sword that were provided by @Karu the previous owner ! Special thanks to him for his contribution to this study!!!Very. Cool.

I think this falls into the whisky tango foxtrot catagory. ☺️

These photos are ones that you posted on january 18 ,2022 titled ???-Suke,help! This one in particular was not kiri or flat cut.

Interesting note #65 the nakabo is not suriage . Like the others ! Working on it Bruce the pics were previously posted I will have to backtrack to find the links .I certainly do not wish to be a source of frustration. My apologies. I am still figuring all this out.

Also there was a #36 in France that sold also wish I had that one. On naturabuy auction site.

As far as I know I have yet to see one in triple digits

One more for the collection

So far this what I do and dont know about Toyosuke so far...all of his blades so far have been suriage or flat cut his trademark,his nakagos crosshatched all but one so far have been taisabiko antirust steel ,razor sharp even after 80 years. All but one were in post directive 54 aka end war postwar kamakura special case Kaigunto koshirai configuration. It is possible he was a resident tosho at Toyokawa Naval Arsenal But not yet verified..the interesting thing is that the anchor stamp used on all but one appear the same 4mm circled anchor with fishhook style barbs seems to indicate Seki mino area Takayama ,Inaba shrine area origin.most are aka souvenir swords sold by Tokyo PX,Pusan Korea .investigation ongoing anyone wishing to help are more than welcomed but critics not. Thank you. John

Now That is what you call a HOT STAMP

What may I ask is aoi? A= Absolutely O=out of I= Ideas. 😊

Not to worry I know that Kintaro Hattori was the owner of the building it was conjecture on my part that the two were connected contractually it only seemed very possible that the two were related or perhaps members of the same sword club due to the fact that very shortly after the take over of the Hattori Building by the 8th Army regiment Tenshozan cut a contract for the souvenir swords that was 2 months quite a coincidence that Kintaro and Zenhiro Hattori 's businesses coincided in the same place that is all I am saying with all due respect. Please forgive if I seem to be confrontational not intended I am very grateful for all the help and support you all have given me you have a friend here.. Guaranteed. John