Okan

For me, and most of us here, it's not about the hunt! We are not hunting toy cars or watches..%99 of the time there are no Japanese Swords hidden in an antique shop or flea markets. If you knew the Nihonto world, you would also agree on this. We study and learn something each day. This is what really excite most of us. We don't spend our days on ebay or marktplaats looking for someone selling a cheap blade actually worth a lot. Thats what lower end dealer does(I don't judge them..lots of dealers in Japan are also doing this)..they risk money..they buy a rusty blade..polish it..paper it..sell it, if they can. There are high-end dealers who know what their customer would like..There are dealers who wants to sell 3k swords for 10k..There are collectors who wants to buy 10k swords for 3k...If you don't want to be fooled, you have to know what you are buying. My last comments on Gimei: Once, someone offered me a Gassan sword(another great maker). Mei checks, style checks...everything seems in order and he asks for 15k(honest price for Gassan).but it doesn't have papers..He says he bought the sword from an old wealthy Japanese guy who lives here in Amsterdam, owns a restaurant called "Hosokawa". Japanese guy said to him that he was inherited the sword by his family..His family name is "Hosokawa", a very powerful Japanese clan, so dealer thinks this sword is really Gassan! I asked if the sword was papered..it wasn't. I offered him 4k which was a decent amount to risk. He didn't agree so I didn't buy it. I simply didn't want to invest 15k for a sword without being %100 sure it's Gassan, not a copy.(even if it look great) So I bought something else. Dealer couldn't sell the sword so he decided to send it to Japan(shinsa for papers). Turned out, sword indeed was Gimei. Sword indeed belonged to the Hosokawa family. They were gifted a Gimei Gassan sword and they didn't even know about it.(how could someone gift them a gimei sword right?) So If I bought it and wanted to sell it after getting bored, I would lose 10k.. Here is another story: In the beginning of 17th century, there was a swordsmith called Yasutsugu working under Hideyasu family..He was an extremely talented and great smith so he was summoned to Edo(Tokyo) by the Tokugawa Shogunate and became the Kaji(in house official smith) of Tokugawa family. He is also one of the first smiths who worked with Nanban(foreign) steel which came to Japan with the famous Dutch ship "De Liefde". One day, Tokugawa himself ordered Yasutsugu to make Gimei blades of famous swordsmiths so he could gift them when he needed to...He made some great copies, hard to differentiate,...He didn't sign them, someone else with better chisel work copied the signatures for him. I'm sure some of his copies were better than the copied smiths. So Gimei doesn't always mean it's a "fake" sword. Collectors don't always yell GIMEI to every sword without papers! We say, it might be Gimei! Sometimes, if the price is decent, we buy swords and don't care about the papers cause we like them so much.

Welcome John...Like Ed said, please share some more pictures. Might be a Yamato blade..

t's really sad to hear you calling people jealous who are trying to help you. No one was jealous with your sword. Why would we? You are right, most of us spent many years studying Japanese swords and invested in very expensive blades. Just like any serious art collector..

These are my own opinions from my own experiences. There are people here who have much more experience than me so you should also wait to hear their thoughts..

What makes you think I'm personally not familiar with the style of this smith? Maybe there is a possibility I studied this smith for a long time? Maybe I actually have owned one of his swords? And some experience with identifying swords after years of studying? If you find a Van Gogh in the attic would you approach it as a fake or real? (in this example Van Gogh is more like Masamune..not Sukekane) To answer your question about the nihonto collector etiquette: Yes, every sword from a famous smith without papers should be handled as gimei! ..And you may want to be %90 sure before sending it to Japan(shinsa) to get it papered..Would you question me if I told you your sword is real and authentic? I didn't say your sword is gimei..I said it might be..There are 20x more gimei Sukekane than the ones from the actual smith himself..Your blade is out of polish so it's hard to authenticate by the blade itself..Hamon looks correct..but mei is suspicous..Check out the last kanji, Saku, on the attached picture..Do you think they are the same? So what are the possibilities: Someone copied his work and it's Gimei. He made the blade himself but was signed by one of his pupils.. He made the blade in an old age, signed himself but due to his age chisel work wasn't as good. (I doubt this)

Why are you aggressive I'm trying to help you..

And Gimei is pretty common in Japanese swords..It's not like a fake rolex made in Bangladesh...it's more like Fake Rolex made by Panerai..or sometimes made by Swatch..

I'm not saying it's Gimei..I said it's possible! And the reason is the way your swords mei was chiseled. It looks a bit amateurish(mei) when I compare it to other papered(officially authenticated) examples...

I'm not sure about this one but yes it's highly possible..Many Japanese swordsmiths copied other "famous" swordsmiths' style and signatures. But even if it's Gimei, still a very nice sword made by a Japanese smith in 19th century..

Hamon is legit but looks a bit Gimei to me..maybe it's the rust I don't know.

Yup..

Lekker!

Massimo is top notch! Good job. Now we have to wait Massimo to work his magic on it...Ishido school maybe?

No one can guess the school with these pictures (and in this condition)...Regarding age, maybe from the Kanbun era..or late Muromachi period..Togishi will help you better at this point.

Hey Grev, This maybe?

Just found menuki..

Hmm maybe?

Take a look at this! https://www.senganen.jp/en/2020/11/samurai-cats-of-the-shimadzu-clan/

Steven, will appreciate if you can post these questions under Military Swords of Japan. Thank you.

Maybe a crazy cat collector got them all!

Pics are definitely better but not there yet Some pictures I see straight lines so looks more like Masame hada to me..

Ok this has been bugging me for some time now..Why didn't they use more Cats(strays) in fittings? I mean we see chickens, mouse, hare, plants, more plants, flowers, dragons etc..But why no strays? In Japanese folklore cats have protective powers..they symbolise good luck and fortune. So they would fit to the warrior class, and also Lords..So why not we are able to find more fittings with cats? Any ideas? Are they just too cute to wear? I'll share some pics that I was able to find.

These pics are really not very good Jonathan. To show the hada you have to go closer..You can also use a magnifier if you have reached the limits of your phone/camera..Don't hold the blade and try to take picture with your other hand Result will always be fuzzy..

Finding era is much harder than finding its period unless there is a huge marker..Like, Kanbun era swords are usually a bit straight..So if the period matches and the blade is straight there is a huge chance the sword was made in Kanbun era, which is what we call Kanbun Shinto. I wonder how your friend came up with Tensho era..Maybe he meant late Muromachi period..

Yeah I'm surprised too! I live in Amsterdam..maybe the rust was already been there I have no idea.