Curran

Dave's Echizen Kinai is definitely different from most that we see. I think we can agree there are many a dragon in the Echizen tsubas, but not sure if I've seen a Dragon Fish like that in Echizen before. Nice Shakudo shim too. School mixes such as the slight Umetada feel to this one certainly do pop up in late Edo. One of the many tsuba I've been forced to sell off the past few years was a nice cloissone work thought by most to be unsigned Hirata. The multiple cloissone butterflies and two tones of gold clematis flowers were done on an iron basketweave background. Perhaps for this reason (the iron basketweave tsuba plate) the NBTHK decided to paper it to "Bushu" which seemed an odd call. The Bushu-Hirata was one of the odder cross works. The Umetada elements in this Kinai example work fine together, especially given that we see the dragon-fish in a fair number of later Umetada works. John, thanks for posting it. Curran

Henry- I recognized this tsuba from the koshirae listing it was with. I like the longevity theme and would have liked to owned this tsuba. My opinion is that it would most likely currently just paper as 'Ko-Akasaka', but I would place it as 2nd gen or by student of 2nd gen perhaps later in the career. Second gen seemed to be fond of the squiggly versions of rendering grass and branches. Not very scientific, but that is by first impression without looking it up more in the few references I have.

Age: 37 First was exposed to Nihonto while a student in Aichi prefecture 20 years ago. An elder neighbor had 2 swords and was kind to share his small collection and his knowledge. My first item was a Choshu tsuba in 1992 found in an antiques shop. In 1999 I became more active in the hobby when my future wife transferred from New York to Tokyo. At the time there seemed few collectors under the age of 40. Since then, the ranks seem to have filled in a bit in the 30 something crowd. The few under 30 seem to remain the exception, as I once was. Perhaps it is a partial function of disposable income as career progresses.

Stephen, I'm not sure what transpired where, and not my place to stick my nose in it- I may have my head up my arse 90% of the time worrying about other things in life, but NMB is a daily break for me and I count as precious the few minutes I get to spend here even if I cannot be as active in the hobby as I'd like. I mentally thank Brian for it every day, and I wish I could correspond/contribute 1/10th as much as I'd like. Point is we've lost too many good people over the past few years. From the Keith Austin tanto to to many other times where I've silently enjoyed your posts... if you are thinking of leaving... reconsider. Please. I can't hold a gun to your head and make you stay, but you're one that I would if I could.

I had wondered who was selling this nice collection. When I was collecting actively and had a small collection of later Edo signed pieces I was proud of, Peter Klein sat with me at the Tampa Sword show and showed me fine tachi kanagushi pieces with a magnifier. I learned a much greater appreciation of their subtle aesthetic from Peter, and am thankful he took the time to discuss them in dept. It made me reconsider what I was collecting. Craig's listing with the descriptions is equivalent to a good intro sword show lecture on the topic. Before the SOLD ones are taken down, people interested should at least visit and read: http://www.yamabushiantiques.com/YBA2_CONSIGNMENT.htm

I agree with Barry: what a unique habaki to make. Tschernaga would probably say it is easy, but I would imagine it to be difficult. Given that the deep groove doesn't go all the way down the Yasukuni nakago, how was a habaki properly fitted to this sword? Does the mune return so wide that a normal habaki is fitted leaving just a large bowl like shape under one edge of the habaki? Interesting item Stephen- Before looking at the signature and the NBTHK Hozon papers, my very first thought was it might be one of those crazy Kaifu province O-tanto or wakizashi blades that often seem to come in different shapes. Curran

John or Ford, If you ever decide to write up the Scythian discourse- please send me a copy. I learned much appreciation for the Etruscan art at the north end of their domain by being practically buried in it (forgive the minor joke in that), but know nothing of Scythian work and doubt our local libraries will have much. Carlo- If you want to trade jobs and house, I will do it with you right now... I couldn't get a job Monte dei Paschi even when living in/near Siena. Eventually I did get semi-legalized by taking a job at the Universita di Scienza Economica e Bancare down the street, and spend the next few months being secretary to economists partying in Siena as they contemplated forming the EC -->(EU). The caretakers of many of the Etruscan items were very good people, but the items not particularly guarded. But as I said, it was a long time ago. Maybe they are gone now, but in those times I could have taken several paintings from the Uffizzi with little more than an Exacto knife and a minor distraction. Security was incredibly lax. To work on a stairwell, they let the masons pick up the nearby paintings and move them casually by hand around the corner.

One of the other list members has a nice pair of greaves menuki that might make a nice compliment to these menuki. A long long time ago (galaxy far away), I worked as ~lavoro nero~ (illegal labor) as a stone mason on a large group of estates in Tuscany repairing many historical structures. Long story made short: in the depths of late fall and winter when not much work could be done at certain times- I found myself hanging with artisans, grad students, locals, and other "off season" residents discussing Etruscan items and touring storage places with caretakers. Most of the conversation was in Italian with about 90-95% comprehension. During that brief time, I saw probably about 20x more pieces (think thousands, maybe 10,000+ if I were to count all the funeral urn/caskets) than have seen in all western museums combined. I hope to this day they are not still store housed in those places from Voltera to the coastline. We would roadtrip out to some of them being nothing more than storage barns. Etruscan goldsmithing seemed to be much better than Roman, though there was to my eye a sad change in perspective with increasing Helvetic influence. My understanding was that their unique innovation was primarily the development of gold bead through dropping in water similar to the early american production of round bullets in shot towers. The only thing that reminded me of it in Japanese artwork was Tomei's millet, and even that isn't done quite the same way. Kill me for hijacking the thread here- but John and Ford... what were other Etruscan innovations? Any references I can read. I did a search about 15 years ago, but didn't find much in English that was any good.

My thought was like John's. I see what I thought was a Tembo tsuba decorated with Shinto religious elements (the flaming jewels and rope with paper

Mark, --Wah! My wife likes that tsuba. Who is the artist? Reinhard, Your skills at photography are better than mine. Thank you for sharing. I was just wondering if there was any point along the false seppa shadow where the dark paint or patina of the false shadow gave evidence it was not correct. It would probably take an expanded photo to show this. I thought maybe the plug in the kozuka ana is lower or higher than the plate and it might explain how the shadow skips a bit from the plug to the plate. The seppa shadow seems to be off at the bottom of the eliptical shape. It is just "thinking aloud" on how this was done and how it is detected. If I looked under a microscope, maybe I could forensically tell. Maybe not.

Reinhard, It is nice to see this Myoju tsuba. Two days ago I had to look over one of the many gimei tsuba claiming to be in his name. Very precise little tsuba, but not this feel. It is interesting this topic of a Nara tsuba with the "fake" print of the seppa-dai. Is there anything in micro detail that helps empirically illustrate it better? Maybe the way the seppa dai print shifts on the kozuka plug? A nice gent sent me images of a daisho tsuba set the other day and asked me if I thought they were correct. There were a few things about them that made me pause slightly. Some odd detail hammering in the soft metal that might be more 20th century and the tsuba were incredibly "flawless", however many things seemed correct about the execution of the two tsuba. Both tsuba showed seppa dai usage, but were otherwise very perfect for anything that had seen usage to leave such strong seppa dai marks. I do not mean to sideline the discussion of aesthetics, but would like to hear more about the seppa dai marks.

Guido- His name is Robert Hunt. He is classic gentleman, an excellent writer, and very interesting person to know. He served in law enforcement for many years and has published several books.

Better pictures. Thank you. With a bit of ivory clean up, some pocket time (or occasional TLC with undyed felt or denim), it should make the tsuba all that much nicer. Definitely a large one. I had considered relating it to tea wares, but my grasp of 'wabi' or 'sabi' is not very academic. Be careful/cautious of rubbing the shakudo in any work on the tsuba.

Looks like a nice massive tsuba to me. 4mm at the plate. How large at the mimi? Great looking mimi with gnarly iron nodules going on. Hard to tell from the flash how bad the surface rust might be, but looks nice. ______________________________________________________________________ Incidentally, regarding your red copper tsuba used as your avatar, Try: http://www.nihonto.us/HOHOSHI%20YOSHITOSHI%20KOZUKA.htm I'm not sure it is this guy, but it is an example of early 20th century work where that bright earthy (Georgia red clay) copper patina is seen. Curran

Please give a lighter weight to what I say, as my sword kantei knowledge is not strong. I call myself a fittings collector that still occasionally wanders into the sword chat. As the others have said, it is hard to tell much about the sword. While decent photos, they don't or can't (due to state of polish) highlight some of the things that are helpful. Using non technical terms: Going from the shape of the sword, the even thickness up through the fore part of the blade... I would say Shinto or shinshinto. From what little I can see of the jigane and the rather pilar like formations in the hamon, plus some scattering of snowy nie inbetween- my first thought is that it is a mino school derivative from perhaps some time in the shinto period? Not my favorite area of study. Perhaps something more related to this: http://www.nihonto.us/UJIFUSA%20KATANA.htm Most of the Unifusa were of Mino origins. I am not saying it is Ujifusa school. My impression is that it is from a derivative Mino school like the Ujifusa school. Let me stress this is just my 2cents. I don't know what to make of the nakago (tang) shape and marks. That might point away from a Mino derivative school. Just trying to help a bit.

Lorenzo, The Kamiyoshi were ordered to take up the Hayashi tradition in the late 1700s. From photos, I think it is sometimes hard to distinguish their work from other Higo work. The one *quirk* many people remember about the school is that generations (2nd and 3rd?) did not sign their works, but rather marked them with distinct square (or rectangle) punch patterns (certain number up top and down below). It should be very easy to read up on them. Whenever a later Higo tsuba shows those punch mark patterns, it often gets called Kamiyoshi. There are many tsuba where the punch mark patterns are 'not right', and it is interesting that the NBTHK does not necessarily regard these as gimei- but doesn't paper them as Kamiyoshi. Good Kamiyoshi are desirable: http://www.nihonto.us/KAMIYOSHI%20RAKUJU%20TSUBA.htm It is not uncommon to see that something late Higo gets called "Kamiyoshi" if unpapered.

In the big horimono book there is a fair bit of discussion (beyond my reading skills) about the particular shape, depth, and detail of ken horimono and how to take that to work backwards with an attribution to certain smiths. This is the book's opinion- but I enjoyed the idea and found myself agreeing with it. Ray.... my spotty recall says to me that the sharp point ken which is deepest at the tip (and a few other things) is closer to the Oei Nobukuni guys, but the presence of ken horimono on both sides is something I don't recall in the Oei Nobukuni guys as much as I think I have seen it in maybe two or three 1st or 2nd generation works. From the horimono point of view, I can understand the Tanobe logic. I know my viewpoint is a bit ass-backwards to work from the 3rd (or 4th Gen) Oei Nobukuni- but it was what I got to see a number of at one point and made the deepest mental impression. I think the long since defunct Philadelphia group put out a decent publication on the Nobukuni group. I wish I had been able to see more 1st and 2nd Gen Nobukuni. Someone had a very beautiful Juyo (or T. Juyo????, I think just Juyo) as part of the San Francisco display in 2003. I would have liked to had a long study session with that blade, but it was not possible at the time. I've always wondered who owned it. Had things gone a bit differently the past few years, it is one I would have liked to track down and purchase. Alas, not meant to be.

Unique looking blade, even for Nobukuni school. My understanding is that usually the 3 brothers or smiths that signed Nobukuni starting around Oei are usually considered the 3rd generation, but one or two things I have read state that there was a very short lived "third" generation in there between the 2nd generation and the Oei period guys. Is the implication that it is 2nd generation, or too hard to tell but the work predates the Oei Nobukuni? I've seen now at least 2 times that the NTBHK can give pinpoint specific attributions on unsigned Oei Nobukuni blades: one was T.Hozon to one of the 3 guys, and the other was Juyo to one of the 3 Oei guys. Interesting that they could not give it to a generation. The Nobukuni were such early horimono experts. Ken were so common in their work, I'd think the ken original to the blade. Curran

Mike, Thank you for the interesting post. Attached is a modern I enjoyed owning for a while. It is a copy of a Tokubetsu Juyo Nobuiye. I value these gentlemen expressing themselves in new forms, but in my particular case just wanted to own a very well done copy of something where I doubt I will ever see the original. Curran

Heinjo tsuba adapted to gunto. (echo...) Some loss of inlay.

Worm trailed 2 gourds. Broken spiderwebs. I do not know to what this is an allusion. I usually think of the gourd (or golden gourds at least) as a symbol of victory. I can only hazard a guess of "old victories" or "victories past", but then maybe it is just 2 gourds forgotten in the cellar.... a seasonal theme. Could be late Higo, though also tempting to just say Shoami. Unfortunately, they don't whisper the answer late at night.

Rich, Thanks for posting an image of that tsuba. I thought to ask others to post for "1st period" Kamakura tsuba examples. I'm not sure I agree with the dating by Jim Gilbert of the first one on his site, but then I doubt he'd care a hill of beans. Just my feeling on the matter. Barry, Knee-jerk reflex is to look at the carving (clouds and general dragon) and point more towards shoami work. I know it is a sin to just say that and not back it up with better explanation. Armchair opinion is that it doesn't have the sukashi associated with later Kamakura bori and the design isn't so much as framed as the ones like Dave's where the elements look like they were lifted off Korean or Chinese celadon / porcerlain. Peter or Rich can probably state a better argument. Any pictures of the tsuba on the koshirae the way you received/found it? Curran

Everybody keep a cool head? I didn't like Kamakura tsuba that much when I started collecting, but have seen quite a number now from the "different periods" and say I have come across some nice ones here and there. I think the one I owned was rather simplistic and wonder how it would have looked on the koshirae of the time. ~Functionalist~ collectors always like that one, but a time came when I had to sell. Oh well. I've seen later koshirae with Kamakura tsuba closer to the one that started this thread. Sometimes they work quite nicely with the koshirae for an overall aesthetic. Curran

I have not seen too many what I would call "1st period" Kamakura. Here is an NBTHK papered one that I sold cheaply a while back. I believe it to be 1st period. Extremely dense and heavy. Felt like 1/4 inch of armor plate. Lacquered with the lacquer having worn off in places and either partially removed or not lacquered in the chrysanthemum petals. Curran

It is "Kamakura" style, which is a school of tsuba that used a sort of design related to Kamakura (wood engraving) style in their design work. The tsuba are therefore called 'Kamakura', but it is not from the Kamakura period. The school went through several revivals over the time (just like birkenstocks and other whatnot of fashion). Nice example, with papers. I believe there was one like this on Aoi Arts at one point. Hope that helps.