drbvac

I dont believe it was re-tempered - it looks OK near the nakago and mune 0 no whitish color there 0 The only picture I have of the hamon till I figure out a better technique is one of these - it is full of little black specs and nie.

By chance did you mean 23rd? Yep - geeze - Am glad you can edit my posts - fixed the date and times

Thanks so much for your interest Chris - so even with the polish reduction, the shape and apparent path of the hamon would make it more like Yaki otoshi. Satsuma or shinto Echizen ? It also has a kaeri in the boshi that goes bak form the tip about an inch on the mune. May eventually narrow it down

Kanefusa 23 generation: Born 1900 taught by Kato Yoshinosuke Jumyi - resident of Seki-shi (city)

Is there any chance considering the polish removed the hamachi - the notch is gone would remove the yakidashi as well.? the hamon swings back down to the edge and disappears ahead of the machi which is also a little odd is it not If not Osaka - Edo or echizen

Shinto it is = late shinto - how does Osaka school sound ?

Chris: Actually thats correct - masame all along the shinogi-ji and it is mostly very small itame all along the hira-ji B

No problem sir - better late than never and another set of eyes always helps - I really think this is older than shinto but the nakago and false signature were done in the 1700's? The steel actually appears "soft' but it is hard to photo: I tried another technique and these may be better photos but it is hard to see the activity in the hamon

Agreed Franco - that was stated in my first post and the nakago looking "lighter in color" and with yasurime that look odd, make me sure it was changed/signed much later than it was forged - thats why I initially thought koto but defer to the experts. Still pretty nice blade with lots going on so I will hang on to it and see what else I can determine. Going to try and scan the blade see if pics are any better

http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index. ... rai_Swords Not sure if you want names of famous swords or famous named swords

All through the nioi guchi like hundreds of stars - could it be Yamato or Soshu tradition shinto?

Here are some more pictures the hamachi is almost gone although the munomachi as a little better defined.. The hamon rounds as it approches this machi area then drops right off the bottom of the blade. There are a couple of hit marks mune very close to the munemachi as well [attachment=1]hamachi.jpg[/attachment] [attachment=0]machi.jpg[/attachment] The hamon looks gunome - midare with a small Circular turnback in the boshi and is not quite as wavy nearer the yokote [attachment=2]hmn.jpg[/attachment] Kind of attractive though - lots of activity - Hizen? mid 1700's?

It indicates it here in tables from Robert Robershaws site in Hizen blades http://www.hizento.net/index.php?page=index SHODAI TADAYOSHI- 1st Gen Tadayoshi Signed: 1600+ TADAYOSHI HIZEN KUNI TADAYOSHI HIZEN KUNI TADAYOSHI SAKU KYUSHU HIZEN KUNI TADAYOSHI HIZEN KUNI JÛ MINAMOTO TADAYOSHI SAKU 1615+ HI TADAYOSHI TADAYOSHI SAKU HISHU JÛ TADAYOSHI HIZEN KUNI JÛ TADAYOSHI HIZEN KUNI JÛNIN TADAYOSHI SAKU TADAYOSHI UMETADA MYOJU (no) DESHI 18 Feb 1624 TADAHIRO MUSASHI DAIJO FUJIWARA TADAHIRO HIZEN KUNI JÛ MUSASHI DAIJO FUJIWARA TADAHIRO Aug 1630+ HIZEN KUNI JÛ FUJIWARA TADAHIRO AND SANDAI TADAYOSHI- 3rd Gen Tadayoshi Signed: 1660 TADAYOSHI 27 Oct 1660 MUTSU DAIJO TADAYOSHI MUTSU DAIJO FUJIWARA TADAYOSHI 16 Aug 1661 MUTSU (no) KAMI FUJIWARA TADAYOSHI --more listed in book-- 1663+ DO KUNI JUNIN MUTSU (no) KAMI TADAYOSHI Circa 1673 HIZEN KUNI TADAYOSHI Born: Died: Name: Father: 1637 in Saga, Hizen 2nd January 1686 (age 50) Hashimoto Shinsaburo [Mutsu (no) Kami Tadayoshi] Omi Daijo Tadahiro (2nd Gen. Tadayoshi)

I believe this is signed Tadayoshi but I may be wrong and that may be good. There was only a couple of tadayoshi who signed with only 2 character mei and I don't think this signature is correct and probably gimei. That said from the boshi and the shape of the blade I still think it is fairly old - wonder if someone changed the mei half of the nakago couple hundred years ago and added the name? I wish I could take pictures and yes I have read all the links and am still no good.

Well he does say it is Gimei and I think the wavy white lines are reflections 0 there doesnt seem to be much hamon visible in some of the picturew

I couldn't do that with all the time and all the modern equipment available Amazing - now we will see these turning up after being left outside for 6 months !! :lol: :lol: NOT

Never thought of that and as time travel is not yet available tough to ask Kinai what the hell he bothered to do it for ! As I dont do much reading on Tsuba one would think that we can't be the first people to ask this question, and it should be discussed elsewhere.

Strange that this is here today: I recalled as a dear friend passed away on the week-end something my Grandfather would say: It's never to soon to do any kindness because you will never know when it is too late. All last week I said I should get over to say a final goodbye and now it is too late - no more. Even if it is a little kindness or assitance I shall make a concerted effort to acknowledge it and try to do as much as I can for all in return. Paying it forward I guess.

The nakago has markings but the mounts and the fact that the badly rusted blade looks like it was plated at some time I would believe IMHO that this is a reproduction.

Great discussion folks and I shall apologize if any earlier comments offended or even disturbed anyone on the forum. Even amongst brothers the talk can get pretty heated from time to time. The examples of tsuba where the hitsuana on either side are not of the same shape or pattern I am not convinced in these cases that they were added for balance although that could be the case and maybe more so where they are identical As well those that have been presented where the ategane may not placed be placed to compliment or balance the tsuba as they are inset into the original oval made to fit to the saya. This example I showed earlier, the shakudo insert is only on the one side and inset into the original sized oval. I like Chris' though that it was to prevent scratching on the inside of a kozuka when the sword was drawn as well as not to pull the kozuka out with the sword. Would it be the case that the shakudo is not necessarily a lot softer than the tsuba but is easier to be polished to a very smooth surface? Probably where the entire inside that contacts the Tsuka is recontoured as an "addition" there can be an arguement that it is to widen the contact point for a different saya.

I am sure if you do a 'search" at the top right of the page you will find some information on Hon'ami such as: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11644&start=0

Carve Chicken

You have misunderstood my intention by pointing out the author, who I do consider a friend although we have never met and live 5000 miles apart. I care not of your personal opinion of the Namban or any other piece of art - I think some modern paintings are disgusting. To each his own. The pointing out the author I was relating to the original post where this gentleman had presented an opinion as to the function of the inserts in the tsuba. You responded with your opinion related to wear of the sword and samauri practice when using same and made a comment about more reading being required. I then stated as my opinion that I would probably listen to the words of a published author with a Masters of Arts degree related to tsuba as to the use of the inserts which yourself and another board member thought very funny. To learn the actual truth of anything is related to evidence based presentations of facts - not the personal opinions of critics. I would just as soon not have to wade through any "personal"opinions on any forum as they distract from helpful discussion. If you want personal opinions and "lighter banter" please put it in Izakaya.

Here is a tsuba by Kinai of Echizen that has an insert. It is not really large - the tsuba is C18 as indicated by a very credible board member. PS " " I'm a traditionalist and perhaps because I'm not an expert in the field I can be considered eccentric and/or just plain ignorant. None the less I think cast tsuba are obscene." Sanjuro Not to embarass a respected friend and fellow professional I trust when you looked at the book on Namban you noted the authors name. Reminds me of when a newbie I wanted to know who Clive Sinclaire was.

Well if study and further reading would help anyone on this forum this is a pretty good book on tsuba - http://www.amazon.ca/Namban-Group-Japan ... 205&sr=1-1