Bruce Pennington

6 hours ago, Kiipu said:

army contracts, two are unknown, and one is commercial.

Thomas,

I'm not used to this terminology.  Are you referring to the fittings - IJA fittings vs civil fittings?

Enhanced a bit.  Looks like corrosion covering it. Likely a Showa.

I would say at least half, if not more, of all stainless blades that I've seen are signed.  Not unusual at all.

2 hours ago, Markdd said:

a shrine presentation sword.

Mark,

I don't see the Mantetsu kanji.  Is this supposed to be one?  If not, maybe Brian can move this to a new post in the Military Section?

2 hours ago, Moley said:

Here you go Bruce.

 

 

Those are perfect, Thanks Gwyn!

20 minutes ago, Moley said:

Hi Bruce,

Are you still doing the survey and compiling the chart ?

If so here are details of my Mantetsu.

Shona Mizunoto Hitsuji (Spring 1943 )  Serial Number Yu 432

 

Gwyn

 

You bet I am!  Thanks Gwyn.  I could use pics of both sides of the nakago too.  I like a shot or 2 if the fittings as well.  There has been some  interest in tracking them to see if we can figure out whether SMR, or local shops, or Tokyo shops were doing the fittings.

Agreed. Both are bad fakes

2 minutes ago, vajo said:

upload the picture

Done.  I tried a copy-and-paste.  Must not come out the same.

3 minutes ago, vajo said:

flummoxed 

Your flumox-ation is vexing! Ha!  You're going to use that new word every chance you get, aren't you?!

I am certain that I'm uncertain about this one.

I find this one interesting, in that it shows the square shape of the steel stamp the "Na" is on. 

Found HERE.

2 minutes ago, Moley said:

What do good Mantetsu go for

Gwyn,

I agree with you on the box and note.  That's far more elaborate than normal fakers would do.  To get to your question, though, a Mantetsu will fetch at least $1,000 more than an average IJA gunto.  I don't have a good feel for the post-COVID market now, but before COVID they were going for $2,600-3,600 USD.

3 hours ago, Leen said:

Still the nan in Bruce’s post are markedly different. My Koa isshin also has no nan, and....is dated

 

 

 

Thanks Leen.  The Nan doesn't show up until 1943, so yours wouldn't have had one anyway.

I've posted the box and cloth over on Warrelics.  Let's see if anyone has any thoughts on them, either way.

One of the problems I have with a few of these is that they are being sold on commission by Komonjo from someone in Japan.  And 2 of those had serial numbers within 4 digits of each other (1941 Ka 228 and Ka 232).  I know that happens in Collector-World but just seems too coincidental, and both are wavy hamon.  And all of them showing up in ... what ... the past year or so?

I'm keeping on open mind.

I wish we had someone that knew these boxes.  Might run the box and cloth by Nick to see what he thinks.  The cloth, to me, looks like it has age.  He's commented on authenticity of items like this before.

Yeah, I have to back-track on my statement about them normally being stamped.  I've surveyed the 22 Nan's and while they are done so well that from a glance, they look stamped, the are actually chiseled (or whatever tool they do that with) in.  Here is a comparison.  The fake is in the center.  Can't say and "always" on this, but the legit ones seem to cut the side lines bottom-up so the pointy end joins at the "shoulder" giving it a rounded look.  The fake started at the top of the shoulders.

Also, the file lines on the legit blades seem fatter.

I have 5 of these (6 now) on file, all dated: 1940, 1941x2, 1942, 1944.  The '44 has no serial number either.  One has a Colonel attribution, and one a Lt Gen.  We've previously done a "kantei" on these fakes and are bothered by the mei differences (though all quite close).  And like I mentioned earlier, NONE of our Nan-stamped blades are Koa Isshin.  I'm adding this one to the file.  Who knows, someday we may find a document or letter describing their custom Mantetsu.  But until then, the scales tilt toward fakery.

I would be interested to learn what is written on the box as well.

Alex, get both the serial number on the back and a photo of the date. If they don’t lineup correctly we know it’s a fake. However, I’ve seen two of these and they had an appropriate serial number for the year. So if they are fakes, they’re smart enough to know how to date them to match the serial number. But let’s try to find out shall we?

This is the fourth one I’ve seen now, but it is a bit unique with the “Ren” stamp.  I will have to check my records but I’m pretty darn sure that there are no Ren stamps on Koa Isshin blades.  I am on the road, but will check when I get home. They may have finally made a fatal mistake. Plus, the Ren stamp looks hand chiseled and not a stamp at all. It should be a stamp.

They were selling for US$3600 before Covid hit. So this is a really good price.

Love the look of this one Neil.

Found a Star-stamped Kiyokatsu, 1943, number 86, but no katakana.  Don’t know what to think about that.

I am finding blades by these guys with no numbers, with numbers but no katakana, and with katakana and numbers.  Regardless of what that means, if the katakana that do show up seem to be from particular areas, then we still have something to work with.  haven’t finished the Kiyokatsu search.

edit: finished, no luck in him.  @george trotter if you can give me some names from one of the other provinces I’ll run a search on them.

The life of the large Seki stamp just extended into 1944!  Found this 1944 Kanemori with a large Seki stamp e-sword.jp/sale

That just shows that the use tapered off rather than dropped dead.

On 7/27/2007 at 2:31 PM, Mark C said:

Nagasa = 25 1/8"

Sori = 5/8"

O-Kissaki

Dated - Showa 18 (1943), no arsenal stamps

 

 

I think I have translated the mei correctly as Echigo Kuni Ju Sadakiyo Seitan.

Mark,

Any chance the nakago has numbers stamped on the end of it?  If so, could we get clear pictures of it and both sides of the nakago?  Is it star-stamped?

On 11/12/2013 at 8:36 AM, george trotter said:

So..., I still just can't understand why high quality Type 3 fittings have not yet been seen on Yasukuni...strange IMHO.

Regards,

 

George, I can't make out the number on this.  Do we have this one already, and is this a Sadaroku?

Edit: Never mind!  Found it on another post - It's a Feb '44 Sadaroku, タ2383

12 hours ago, george trotter said:

Igarashi      Akimitsu      NIIGATA  star      1943   'ta' 1246

Yamagami Munetoshi* NIIGATA  star  3/1944    'ta' 2353    (*his later mune mei kanji)  and BTW, don't know where the error crept in, but its  fittings are not Type 98, they are Type Rinji (see montanairon pics above).

Got my first hit:

Sadaroku, 1943, Ta 1361; fittings not shown but only 1 mekugi ana; thread by our own @vajo

So 3 in the Niigata area with the same katakana.

Like much of this kind of work, I went through several Sadaroku with no numbers at all, but the few I've seen like that were dated earlier than '43.  I haven't finished the search on him yet.

Edit: Make that 4: Feb '44 Sadaroku, タ2383.

Update: No luck on numbered blades for Sadakiyo and Yoshimitsu

On 12/31/2015 at 3:37 AM, vajo said:

The koshirae is not very eye catching.

Chris, is this in Type 98 fittings?  Just wanting to know for the files.  Thanks!

4 hours ago, lonely panet said:

so the sword is company grade would be from corporal to warrant officer

the field grade tassel is for 2nd lieutenant to colonel

Maybe I'm missing something?  "grades" as in "company grade" and "field grade" are officer terms.  Company grad is Lt - Capt; Field grade is Major - Colonel.

5 hours ago, george trotter said:

These are what I have found for NIIGATA

Thanks George.  That will give me plenty to search for, for now.  One thing I just realized is that these katakana stamped numbers only show up in 1943 and '44, with most of them, currently, in '44.  So that will really reduce the pool of blades to find others.  Well, off to the searches.