Shamsy

Totally legit, just heavy patina

Holy moley! I should have saved my knots to flog them off later...

You're right about that and great eye for detail.

Try this one. I believe this is the original thread that spawned the 'Polish' Swords term on NMB. I checked the other two. The WRF forum links to an Indian sword as the source. I later add "I was very careful when i bought my Iijima with Tokyo stamp and Iijima with Kokura stamp. Poland have been producing high quality replica IIjima 95's for a few years now." So I obviously found out about these earlier than 2017. I'm particularly happy to see that the WRF sword in question was from a collector in Poland. That supports my initial observations about these swords origins.

I had a look at my Iijima to compare. The more I look at it, the closer it appears to be the Polish sword made into a fake...

Possibly. I'm looking at the stamps... the key thing with the Polish swords are the paint colours (I'm colour blind, but I'd call it a 'darker' shade of green which usually just pops out), the flatter, chiselled looking habaki markings spread a little further apart and the crappy bohi and serial numbers. Crappy bohi and serial check, check. Colour wise... maybe on the handle. I thought the saya was painted and not the darker green, so I thought that a good indication, but Stegel pointed out that it's not paint but rust, so that's a maybe. The habaki stamps... I'm not sure. They are further apart than usual... not sure about the quality. The habaki has pretty thick patina... On the plus side, it doesn't have that obnoxiously over bent retention latch common to Polish. The thing with the Polish swords are that they are very good reproductions. It really is hard to pick them, especially when they are well aged. Each sword must be judged as a whole. There are too many variations in quality and detail of the real things. That unfortunately starts to make it hard and the fact Iijima is the worst for quality and manufacture differences doesn't help.

Actually, it was me that first introduced the phrase 'Polish sword'. It came about when I found these swords, far better than the Indian made ones, for sale from Poland. They were not aged but new condition and listed as such, so they were reproduction and not intended to fool. But later, they started appearing with artificial aging and so entered the 'fake' arena. I called them Polish as this was the first place I found them.

Does the scabbard paint look too fresh? Either it's remarkably well preserved or it could be repainted. Or more likely it the photo. The bohi and kissaki looked bad, but if you look at sword 4 and 3 respectively below, these also have the shallow scoop bohi and poorly defined kissaki. Nothing else is amiss, so as usual,judging the sword as a whole, genuine.

1. Not uncommon on koshirae 2. Could be shark skin... snake skin was also used, but looks like shagreen? Happy to be corrected 3. Good condition to excellent. Can't see any damage, only an expected and pleasant patina 4. Koshirae were made to fit the sword, so an ancestral blade was taken to a have a custom koshirae made (or one modified to fit if using older fittings like tsuba). Swords for officers were private purchase, so money dictated what you could get. In theory regulations too, but they seem exceedingly flexible. Later, material shortages also become a factor as the war progressed

A wretched thing that the rest of the sword is missing. These are so rare and hard to come by. Makes me cringe to think how genuine pieces got mixed up with cheap fantasy katana bits.

So what I see here is a genuine tsuka, genuine tsuba and genuine fuchi. Yes the stamp is bad, but it looks like it's just a bad strike, maybe two attempts. Yes, one stamp is upside-down, but that happens and doesn't mean anything. An extra stamp to the fuchi rear is not uncommon on the very few Mizuno we have seen. The rest? Probably garbage bits from whatever was laying around.

A toothbrush, oil and elbow grease will scrub all the loose, red, active rust free. You can then wipe the nakago clean of oil. The steel will then age, but not too detrimentally. Dark, stable rust isn't such an issue. It is a bit of a controversial topic, but personally, I don't like red rust on nakago. Especially when it rubs off and into fittings. I handle nakago without gloves and never seem to get the red rust return, but I think that people have different oils on their hands which react differently to various metals. I stabilised this nakago as if I left it to the red, it would have entirely disinterested. The habaki was also stuck. And no, I didn't polish the blade. That's a lacquer or grease that came off with a little spirits and care.

Good price. I'd take it

Hi Paul, I'm afraid these are cheap and nasty Chinese replicas. Sorry for the bad news. This is also not the place to post. Try creating a new thread and you'll get more responses and attention. Brian or a mod will probably delete or move these posts when they notice.

Up to you if you leave the wire, but I highly doubt it is anything historical and would remove it myself. Leather, rattan or cloth were used to decorate and protect saya. Not wire.

Someone spent a long time carefully wrapping that scabbard in wire. Hopefully that means the paint underneath is well preserved.

This one slipped my mind, but yes, just another option to add to the minefield that has come to be labelled 'Island Swords'. I seriously doubt there will ever be much definitive to say about them, other than some are from WW2 and are historical artefacts. Some not. I agree. I think the original sword in this post is Chinese in origin and unrelated to the war. That was my first post and that opinion stands. Thank you for the insight about their appearance being recent and not matching anything you've seen before. That's also my primary concern. A repeated 'pattern' only recently seen. Doesn't make me think it's anything genuine and I don't think a little craftsmanship (not sure I'd call it that in good faith) is compelling. We have found interesting snippets of history, which I think goes along with what Chris is saying. We learn through enquiry. That doesn't just apply to these swords. The Type 95 has had so much new information discovered in the past few years through the dedicated theories and research of a few, despite the insistence of self styled 'experts' that there is nothing new to learn beyond the books. I guess what I'm getting at here is that there is still more to learn in just about every field and it's best to keep an open mind. I still remember the reams of 'It's fake' comments on a posted sword, only to have the poor owner pop the handle and find the Java sword works marks all over the tang. Pretty much this. I don't enjoy sport at all. Boring and pointless, in my opinion. But I don't find every sports thread to tell people that. It's fine to have an opinion. Say if you think it's fake or not. Preferably add to the argument if you have something worth saying, like Ian. But there is NO call to deride, ridicule or make fun of people who are interested, even if misguided at times. I enjoy history. Particularly military history (typically as a time of great cultural and technological revolution). I enjoy all aspects of it. I like nihonto. I like militaria. I like to learn, debate and chat to like minded people. So leave the weirdoes like me who poke around niches in niches and waste our time as we see fit. NOTE: We do need to be careful about what we say about these kind of swords though. We need to be responsible and state what is conjecture. Last thing we want to do is 'make up' history in a well intentioned effort to be open minded or explain an oddity.

That's exactly right, Thomas. The other thread was from a dealer, if that helps. Honest and good bloke, just didn't know it was an old repro. But they are reasonably easy to spot and I don't see many at all.

There is a thread with one somewhere in this mass. Stephen helped provide some background. You could find it with diligence.

I think we do have such a thread buried somewhere... pretty sure it's called Island Swords or something. I've only ever encountered one sword I can absolutely and certainly verify is an 'island sword', though there are probably better terms for it. Theatre made maybe. I had a thread on it I'll try to find. Came from the veterans brother along with a few other bits. Picked up after being left behind by Japanese forces. So obviously not considered worth taking. Not sure I recall any others discusses on the board with provenance? It's an interesting topic, as we know there were theatre made swords made by POW from POW accounts, we know a Japanese team made swords (thanks Dave), we know there were swords made in China and think we have identified them (thanks Kippu and others), we know Java had sword production and a few examples, we know collaboration forces used non-Japanese swords... but it's such a minefield topic.

Looks like a fake to me I'm afraid. It's not one of the Chinese swords, doesn't match that 'pattern'. Genuine island swords are really hard to identify, especially when a lot of the early Chinese fakes are old enough to be getting a true patina. Unless you know a sword to be picked up in theatre based on provenance, or it's got the Java marked nakago, best to stay on the side of caution, I think. I wouldn't ever chase an 'island' sword unless it was Java marked, personally.

Fake 32s are few and far between and easy enough to pick. This isn't one.

The rust on the scabbard looks old and stable. You'll likely do more damage messing around with it than just leaving it alone.

They all look like fakes from China to me.

Sorry, that was not aimed at you. I was saying that my long reply really boils down to 'blade is better than most fake/repro but not unusual'. However, I managed to somehow make that several paragraphs.