Jean

Clive, I have read superfically your book and I was delighted because it is another approach in the books. Next Holidays, I'll read it in depth. From what I have seen, are not you an Hizen addict? and being very nosy, is it your private collection?

I miss him too, what would he say about the $....

Shoami school - Kyoto branch

I know John but it was the occasion for me to precise my thoughts :D :D Now I have a question (it is a question and I have no answer) Artist ranking system (Mukansa ...) depends on the result of NBTHK yearly competition results over several years. What are the chances of obtaining a prize if the work presented differs totally from what is usually presented in the competition? In short, how total innovation would be welcomed by the Jury? Has it already been done and what was the result?

Thanks John to give me the opportunity to clear things I apologize to seem being semantic, probably due to my poor knowledge of English idioma but in French, we are very precised to avoid any misunderstading : a craftsman is merely an artist (whatever his level) in no way a master. In French, very very few craftsmen have the right to be called masters

Mike, Foreword : One cannot generalized saying that craftsmanship nowadays will never equals the past one. There are thousands of counter examples, because people mistake craftsmanship for mastery I entirely agree with what you are saying and there is no contradiction with what I said. Modern Craftsmen can be very good/excellent and equal masterpiece in there tecnical making, it has been done in all art sections and all countries - Opinions on whether, copy/fake are art or not, are controversary. Some says that to be able to achieve perfect fakes (misleading even experts upto certification) of great names makes a faker a great artist because he has not only mastered the technic but also the spirit of the master he has copied, other says no. My feeling on the subject is that technically, nowadays top craftmen are no better or worse than in the past and I agree with you that best craftsmanship does not necessarily make someone a master in terms of creativity. Craftsmanship and mastery must not been mistaken Concerning fakes : The perfect fake is the one nobody is aware of

Everybody is going to be surprised or not ( ) but my Japanese culture is very feeble/weak. All my comments on the board are based on common sense and observation. Adapting Tsuka on a battle field: If you have read the different posts on the Board, it is a direct invitation for Boothill (even without facing the Clanton's clan at OK corral - good movie but not worth "Shane" IMHO). That there is only one mekugi ana location for maximum efficacity on an ubu nakago, I doubt it because I have seen a lot of nakago (some ubu) riddled with bullet holes (mekugi ana) - I have owned several, and they correspond to new koshirae. Now, to be honest, I must confess that I have not met any samurai able to tell me which of Jacques or my theory is the good one. But sorry, I must confess that my evil twin likes to tease him probably because he reads a lot and spend a lot of times studying and that at the opposite I read less but spent more time thinking. A good compromise will be to merge both of us but it will deprived NMB of our "chamaillerie" - Time for you folks to learn French -

In fact, to simplify, I think that smiths who drilled their own mekugi ana were very meticulous and followed always the same pattern considering a given mei and type of sword. If, as it happened sometimes, the mekugi ana was drilled by someone else, it could be anywhere, meaning not following necessarily any pattern but experience Taking into account the number of swords (Koto/Shinto/Shinshinto) having several mekugi ana, I very much doubt the theory I had a Sukehiro Soshu tanto with 3 mekugi ana (ubu nakago) each clearly made to fit a definite koshirae. Here you make a point, I haven't thought of this but driven by necessity it may have been done, but with a big reserve, it could have been a direct ticket to boothill (I love western movies), our members practicing tameshigiri can elaborate on this solution.

Interesting, but it seems that there are several possible locations, taking into account : - who drilled the mekugi ana (examples of smith mei being punched upon in some cases and not in other cases) - numbers of ubu nakago with several mekugi ana I let Guido, Reinhard, Ted, Clive give their opinion http://www.nihontomessageboard.com/mei_exercise.html

Thanks Jacques, I know, but it seems that there is no Oshigata published in the afore mentioned books bearing the complete signature in line as in the sword for sale at Iida Koendo. Concerning mekugi ana, their placement vary according to the kind (variation) of signature by the same smith. And even with the same signature, we have seen it on the board, it happens that the mekugi ana may not drilled at the same place. The non-plugged mekugi ana is probably koto but the 2 other being plugged, it is hard to date them ...

Thanks a lot Jacques, I had this one on the zuikan but I was looking for an Hikobe one that I could not find.

Thanks Eric for this post. In fact I have checked some Tadamitsu nakago oshigatas, from the Fujishiro to Nihonto zuikan, trying to see if it was possible to find the position of the initial mekugi ana. Unfortunatelly, but for one or two examples, they had all several mekugi ana. It would be very interesting to find the different Koshirae done for the same blade, to see the corresponding Tsuka. Which makes me think (yes, it happens sometimes :lol: ) : Could a sword have had several mekugi ana used at the same time : e.g. battlefield koshirae/for Court koshirae/daily...

Eric, I presume that it is from the description given because it is impossible to say from the picture as it is not the same sword, mekugi ana are not placed in the same way and we don't see the hamachi. Considering yours, the two bottom ones seems to be of the same diameter and "could" have been done at the same time. This would imply that the original mekugi ana is the upper one, so the nakago in this hypothesis "could" be ubu (meaning no machi okuri, in this case).

My question was based on the oshigata of the Tadamitsu (which seems in line wiith the picture of hamachi)

That's why I put an "?" at the end of my post. Extra mekugi ana don't interfere in the UBU notion. Is the description of these swords mentionned "machi-okuri" or not?

Perhaps 2 of these exceptions : Two swords with Juyo Token, all have several mekugi ana ===> probably machi okuri. I don't know? http://www.iidakoendo.com/info/item/a173.htm http://www.iidakoendo.com/info/item/a128.htm

I shall go for Bizen, from the Nakago and the fact the sword is nioi deki. Perhaps Kozori (by a long shot as was saying Sherlock Holmes) :lol:

Bruno, That was an easy one. To help you you have on the board the link to the "Nihonto kanji pages" and then you go to the Dr Stein's commercial sites in English. You take Aoi Art and study mei with their romanji equivalence (meaning in your case Nagamitsu saku ...) you'll learn a lot. You shall also see that the same kanji can have different reading : it is the same kanji 長for "Osa" in Osafune that for Naga in Nagamitsu. The kanji Masa 正(for a name) can also be read "Sho " in a date as in Eisho or Tensho (Muromachi eras) Eisho is written : 永正 but in some names 永 = Naga Sorry I must left you to take some aspirines

My question to Darcy was the following after he gave me the price of his Go Yoshihiro : His full answer was :

Mark, I am sure you can or you won't put up this money on a TH tsuba. I believe in Hozon kanteisho to validate a mei or to kantei an unsigned Tosogu/kodogu. I have unsigned tsubas with H certificates and other with no certificate which are at TH hozon level, I won't bother to have them passed TH and I am sure that I am wrong because it will have more monetary value with TH paper. In fact my thought is that TH is more commercial and H is not enough selective while very instructive. I know an Antiques dealer who shall only accept TH swords whatever the quality. I know another one who will accept only papered swords about 70cm long and in koshirae. One thing is sure, the certificate system is biaised by commercial market value. as all Art markets

or Shimada school?

Very well stated Pete Once again, I was sure that I had some reactions to my post. I was not talking about the e-bay tsuba which is outstanding. BTW, at this level the question is not TH, the real one is : Is it worth Juyo or not. Mark, you have never read or in diagonal the posts already written on the subject and my opinion on the subject : - Kanteisho is worth for a mumei blade and to validate a mei. Now what is the difference between H and TH on swords, I think that with my small experience I can see it. I have a sword at the time being with H papers, that I won't bother to present to TH shinsa, the question being, is it at Juyo level? Yes, TH has a commercial value and kanteisho also, Guido post is very self telling. For myself, TH has mainly a commercial value compare to H papers. I shall just quote some of your points to illustrate my points : Last part of your answer : Hozon is enough. yes Here I doubt they' are able to perceive it as it take years you are buying a paper Just a confirmation of what has been said above, you are relying on the kanteisho. No, my swords are either H or J that the first part of your sentence - yes for the second part of your sentence. Buying Kanteisho Too much "may", it is a gamble. What I was stating is that TH is a very fuzzy notion. Why this intermediary level? Why not a Hozon level and then a Juyo one? Where is the scale? what is the space between the steps of the ladder? What is a low TH item and a High one? It is interesting and has been debated among collectioneers a lot of time I had an exchange of mail with Darcy concerning the value of Kanteisho and he said they were much praised for Commercial transactions but that he knows and probably Guido too swords worth more than 500k$ not even papered

Glad for you, Guido, but taking into account the market and auction results on papered swords, you are a very very lucky guy. :D All depends on : when and what you buy - where you sold - I have countleess counter-examples included on Juyo at the time being

Ford, Latin is like everything, abusus non tollit usum: ad augusta per angusta ...

My English is a bit rusted, Ford, but it is not an obligation