Antti

Nice to see that tsupid word was corrected

No more newbie questions, but I do have a new tsuba. Once again I'm looking for your comments and opinions. This one came from Lody Duindam at Token Sugita Europe. A throughly pleasant transaction. I would also like to take this opportunity to extend my gratitude to Curran, who has been helping me with many questions I've had, therefore preventing me from flooding this fine forum. :lol: I've also bought several books, including the Haynes Tosogu Index. I found this tsuba very harmonious, and balanced. The signature is Masaaki, Curran noted that this is a dead ringer for H.03830.0 (born 1739). As my previous tsuba, it comes with NBTHK Hozon papers. My favourite thing about this tsuba is the irregular amida yasurime. Although not rare, I found this this design a lot more pleasant than the regular ones seen on many others. Size: 86,2 x 79,6 x 4,2 mm The pictures were taken with a smartphone again, so I had huge difficulties getting the color right. Here they are anyway, sorry about the quality. Perhaps this, a sellers photo, has captured the color better. http://www.tokensugita.com/TS106.jpg

I've seen one picture of a tsuba where two similar, unfinished drill holes were next to each other on the lower part of the tsuba, which was supposed to be an aborted attempt to create udenuki ana. The placement of the holes in this tsuba is weird though...

I wonder what those two marks are on 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the first picture. Almost looks like they have been made with a drill.

As no new comments are coming in, I'd like to draw a conclusion. Jean and Ken have pointed out several reasons why this just would not be worth it. The number of fakes, and the impulsiveness (buy first - study second) of the newbie buyer, would render the article ineffective. This combined to the fact, and I insist, that I would not be the right person to write it anyway. Perhaps in a few years, but right now I do not have the authority to write about this even if the idea would be viable. Thank you Jean, Ken, mr. Stuart, Junichi and mr. Klein for your input. Should the need for such an article arise in the future, I'll keep the pics on my hard drive.

Be careful there Teimei, I am surely no more skilled than you are, but I have the bad habit of thinking out loud :lol: By the way, although many related books are very expensive, there is a german shop called Nihon Art Publishers: http://shop.nihonart.de/ Where you can pick up the Haynes index for example for a very modest fee, if you havent already.

Greetings Florian and welcome! I really enjoyed what you have so far. Especially the first tsuba is unusual and very pleasant to my eyes. If you would not have said it was 18th century, I would have thought it to be later work! But hey, what do I know

Ken, I think I have misrepresented certain things. About google, the scenario I described earlier is what would happen right now if you type "Fake Tsuba" into google. So NMB is already pretty high up there (#4), and perhaps it is ok as it is? I dont know much about search engine mechanincs, but we dont have to be #1, it's perhaps enough to be among the first few, which is the case now. It does not have to be gigantic. It cannot be as a matter of fact. The impulsive newcomer probably would not read it if it was. I'm talking about... let's say 1-2 pages (Word, A4) of text, complimented with the pictures from the forum. Many fakes that have been posted are very easy to spot if you know what to look for . Casting seams, lifeless seppa dai, wrong shape nakago ana, porous material, nonsensical (and soft edged) signature, terrible "patina", excessive use of gold and silver (color), cast sekigane which is part of the plate and so forth. Take a look at these topics. Every single simply screams 'FAKE', and I think it would not be impossible for even a first time buyer to get to grips with the flaws. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15927 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17114 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15536 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14752 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14555 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10971 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10918 When it comes to me writing it, as I mentioned in my first message, I dont think I should do it. I lack the experience many others here have. I would love to write about this, but it would not be right. A newbie instructing a newbie sounds like a recipe for disaster. That is why I'm throwing an idea out there, and asking help from more experienced collectors. I have already collected a lot of pictures, and would be willing to help in any way I can. The idea would be: 1. To make sure they understand that fakes are out there, a special case to be made with eBay (WARN) 2. There are some easy, and basic ways to identify a fake (TEACH) 3. Direct them to the Links-section, For Sale-subforum and such (DIRECT) Now there are fakes that are very difficult to spot, but these very bad fakes seem to be much more numerous. If we could at least get them over these easy fakes, many incidents of buying a fake might be prevented. At the same time we are making them skeptical, so at least they start to ask new questions before making the purchase.

Ken, while I do agree with you, there is not much info on fake tsuba even if they DO find this forum. Well the info is here, but it's scattered to a thousand topics. Lets take a scenario. A random person strolls through the eBay rubbish, and thinks "This is suspicious, I wonder if this is a fake?", goes to google, writes "Fake Tsuba". Results: #1 is the JSSUS site, with one case of fake tsuba, which has a link to NMB #2 http://www.nihontocraft.com, which has a link to NMB #3 result was Richard Stein's website, which has a link to NMB #4 is the NMB However the JSSUS site only contains one fake, nihontocraft none, Stein's website containing 3 small pictures and in NMB the info is scattered. A concentrated article, in NMB, that can easily be found through google, might serve as the first line of defence against fakes. I think I have said everything I can, and made my case as far as it can be made. Therefore I will rest my case, and see what the jury thinks.

Jean, although I'm sure you are right about the impulsive newcomers playing russian roulet with their wallets, one reason for this might be that they are: A: unaware of the amount of fakes out there - I was B: unable to find info on these fakes - I somewhat did We probably cannot control their impulsiveness, but we could, perhaps, serve those who at least are marginally interested finding out more while considering a purchase. Mr. Stuart, I think the subject of Samurai is generally rather appealing, and perhaps many people are looking for an authentic item to put on their bookshelves. So perhaps most buyers are not aiming to be collectors, but to get a genuine relic to remind them of the famous warrior class. Therefore tsuba are rather accessible. This is how I started, and these damn things just turned out to be more addictive than I thought. (edit) And perhaps this article could be used as a refence of sorts, to give to newcomers to read, even if they have already made a bad purchase. You wouldnt have to point out the obvious flaws everytime a fake is presented, and you could just give them a link to this article. This way the newcomers would get info on fakes, instead of just the bitter taste of "Chinese fake, sorry"-treatment.

As I have mentioned before, I have, once again, been training my eye and learning about attributions by going through the old topics of this forum, and they have been a treasure cove of information. However, once in a while, I've run into a topic, where an enthusiastic newcomer has proudly presented his first piece, which turns out to be a bad chinese fake. As a newcomer myself, it greatly surprised me at first, that there are so many forgeries out there. A laymen might think that tsuba are fringe items, and that one might not see purposeful fakes in the market so often. The site which I visited often at the beginning of my studies, was Richard Stein's website, which has a short introduction to fake tsuba. However the pictures are small, and there are only three of them. Also I believe that this great site is not being updated. Mr. Hallam mentioned in an old topic that he is planning a "Wall of Shame" of fake tsuba, but I do not know whether it ever led to anything. Therefore, lately, I have been downloading every single bloody picture of fakes presented on this forum. I got the permission from mr. Robinson to do this. So what I have, is a rar. file, of more than 30 pictures of 19 fake tsuba posted on this forum. I repeat that the pictures were posted on this forum, and I havent taken any from links to eBay and such. I have also dismissed several because the pictures were horrible, or there was some dispute over the tsuba's authenticity. I also made a short Word-format-index, which shows the topic where the fake was presented, and gives the source of the fake (eBay/pawnshop for example). I've read through almost every single old topic on the Tosogu-subforum during the last 12 months, and I have seen a pattern which repeats way too often. An enthusiastic newcomer comes in, has not done his homework, presents a chinese fake, gets stumped, gets discouraged and is never seen again. If we can prevent a single transaction of fake tsuba for real money, it would be worth it. We might help a newcomer to succeed in his first purchase, and therefore encourage him to go on. As an added bonus, we might achieve some satisfaction by stopping a chinese conman from making a dishonest buck. I suggest we could try to write a short article to this forum, presenting the fakes and showing newcomers what to look for. As a newcomer I dont have the experience, expertise or the authority to write something like this, but many of you do. Something like this, with a short introduction to fakes with proper photos, perhaps with the obvious signs highlighted, would greatly ease the growing pains of a newcomer. Please do consider this suggestion and share your thoughts. If my suggestion does not get support, at least you know that the pictures of fakes are at least in one place, in my possession, for any future use.

As these are always learning experiences for all of us, how far off would I be if I would say that the tsuba could be Hamano school?

Would this be Saotome tsuba, or at least made in the style of Saotome school?

Did you take the pictures with flash? Perhaps you could try without it and see what happens. Perhaps we could see the true color and so forth.

A similar themed tsuba is for sale by Grey Doffin, ex Holbrook, attributed to Ono by Holbrook. I like this one a lot better, but the theme is somewhat similar at least. http://www.japaneseswordbooksandtsuba.c ... -ono-tsuba Also, a very similar example was discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16106

Marius, have those rabbits been added there by a different craftsman who made the plate, do you think? All the carving in the plate seems to be rather bad, but those the bunnies seem to be better (and exceedingly adorable) to my newbie eyes. A bit of a waste really.

The second one reminds me of an Akasaka Tadatora tsuba Curran displayed in an earlier topic: download/file.php?id=45683 The bottom one. The quality might differ but there are similarities in the theme, and both meaty as hell.

I must say, if the tsuba are fakes, as a newbie, I find it rather scary. At least the Soten style on the far left looked quite convincing. Perhaps they are getting better at this. There still something fishy about that nakago ana area, and the patina seems to be inconsistent, but still... Really keen to hear whether they are real or not.

At least even ugly paintings are still authentic. This is more like a bad quality print from an ugly painting If you are looking for a real tsuba, plenty of vendors in the links-section of the forum. And welcome!

Thanks guys! If I ever see an elephant on the road while driving... it is going to have a little accident By the way, can the tsuba be linked to any school? Sort of reminds of some Myochin tsuba I've seen with thick rims, brownish patina and the mokko shape. But what do I know? Thanks Jussi for your insight, I'll PM you.

Thank you Brian and Adam for your answers. I just remember reading about this tool that could be ordered somewhere, so I wouldnt have to produce the tools myself out of bone or ivory (is that even legal). Thanks for the opinions about the koshirae, the lack of replies made me wonder whether it was any good at all. More opinions would be most welcome, and the tsuba design still bothers me.

Ok, thanks to my friends smartphone, I managed to get some decent pictures. Perhaps these will help to spur some conversation about the koshirae and the questions I asked above.

Greetings again everyone! The first two tsuba I acquired proved out to be adequate purchases, so it is time for the third round. But two questions first if I may: 1. Just out of interest, are the nihonto/tosogu collectors all men, or are there any active female collectors in the community? I'm just interested whether women appreciate the aesthetic grace of Japanese swords and their fittings, or are they, with their masculine connotations, only desirable to men? 2. The tsuba of my new purchase has some rust in it. Therefore, I have been giving some thought of trying to remove it. Now I have read the "Cleaning Iron Tsuba" guide from Richard Stein's website, and also several topics related to this subject from this forum. Now what I have learned that you can use bone (antler for example) to remove the rust. However, I remember reading about a fiber "pen" of some sort, perhaps used by car paintshops or something, that can also be used. I cant remember where I read it, so could someone elaborate. If they can be ordered somewhere, a link would be great. All right, to the purchase. This time I decided to buy a koshirae instead of a tsuba, as the opportunity presented itself. I still intend to concentrate on tsuba, but I think getting a koshirae was a good idea. I could not help feeling like someone who wanted to collect stamps, but had never held a letter in his hands. Also, I must admit, that I had my eyes on a kinko tsuba I liked, but thank goodness I asked mr. Hallam's opinion about it via Facebook, and it turned out to be rubbish. A healthy reminder indeed. The koshirae comes from Frederick Weissberg at http://www.nihonto.com. I must note that he was absolutely great to deal with, and I was very pleased with all aspects of the transaction. I think none of the individual parts of the koshirae are particularly good. The fuchi/kashira seem to be decent shibuichi ones, but nothing out of the ordinary. The fuchi also has a small area of damaged patina, shown in the photos. The shakudo menuki dont seem that great either. The tsuba however looks sturdy and rugged, and I would love to get your ideas of it. It has a lobed mokko shape, but I cant figure out whether this represent a school? The red saya is in excellent condition however, and I find it very attractive. Also, it should be noted, that the koshirae was very reasonably priced. I recently moved to another city, and lost my access to a good camera and the person behind it. Therefore, you can find better photos from mr. Weissberg site here: http://www.nihonto.com/10.10.13.html I tried to take few dozen photos with my friend's digital camera, but they all turned out to be rather crude, so I'd rather not post them. Also, there is a very strange design in the tsuba. Double-lines from the tsuba's 12 o'clock to 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. They look a bit out of place. They are also difficult to make out in the pics, so by using some very advanced image manipulation software I managed to enhance the pattern for you. The design appears on both sides of the tsuba. I'm looking forward to hearing your answers to my questions, and all opinions about the koshirae are very welcome.

From one beginner to another, eBay is perhaps not the best place to begin this hobby. Check the NMB links section for dealers. This way you also get to see quality stuff to train your eye. Really helped me a lot. I made a bookmark list out of them to my browser, very quick to navigate.

Very nice! As a newbie, I find most Heianjo tsuba a bit underwhelming, but these are indeed nice. Kaga Yoshiro work has always been pleasant though. Can someone tell me what is up with the inlay in the seppa area on one side of the square tsuba. It looks like some partial inlay with some red color in the mix?