Alex A

Don, maybe you can describe what you see, easier in hand https://markussesko.com/2015/05/13/kantei-2-jigane-jihada-2/ Think im seeing some mokume in there?

You guys expecting to see Asayugi ?, my eyesight not good, im struggling Its times like these you need Aoi art style pics

No, David, just state an observation And have Jacques give me some new-fangled idea on how tsuka are automatically interchangeable, like a size 9 shoe

David, i was explaining Bizen similarities, i did not say it WAS Bizen Only so much can be known from the DISTANT images

Hmm Jacques, does that not look Bizen ?

Jacques, looked at more machi-okuri waks (not being pedantic but around the one hand sword length which can be pretty long but lets just say waks) over the years than i care to remember and funnily enough they have mostly been Bizen and all had 2 ana about an inch or so apart. Where have you got this "other tsuka" notion from?, its intriguing . So Tsuka readily fit other swords?, hmm This is what i think. Fighting/blocking a blade with one hand on the blade was a complete nightmare, imagine it, big naginata coming down on you, your tired and your nakago only has room for one hand. Holy****, what can we do about such an issue ?, we can slightly shorten the blade to enable us o get 2 hands on the grip, thats what we will do!!, that way, when we are knackered from fighting at least we can stop blows. It may be a Katana, but still applying what ive seen, right or wrong, dont matter. The nakago-jiri in the photo looked Bizen, rounded. Why does everything need to be a competition with you?, why cant you just make a point? Great scott!!!, your that sure about everything, sometimes i think you have created a god dam time travelling device with your love for physics

Agree with Franco Blade is slightly shortened too, the 2 ana (peg holes) close to one another always a giveaway. Usually a "Bizen" thing, well, see it mainly with Bizen Nakago-Jiri looks Bizen too. Cheers.

Hi Colin, Just looked at the Tadakuni and when i zoom in, the right pic of nakago shows yasurime higher up, perhaps worn the other side. Spent 5 mins on the internet just pulling up various old sales pages and that's the result. The point is (whilst trying think whilst misses watching strictly come dancing lol) wish folk would not be so closed minded when it comes to working out hamon with regards being ubu or suriage. Loads of variation out there. No getting away from the fact that there is hamon on the nakago. Heard of polishers repairing missing hamon with their tricks but dont see any point to it in that particular part of the blade. When they do that though, its obvious. Remember Tsuruta San once telling me that hamon can be improved but you cant put a real hamon where there is none. Your right about images, but you see that in-hand too. Anyone could sit here all day and pull up varying hamon endings for a particular smith and that is my point.

One more, from a different smith, Hizen Tadakuni !st. See one as an abrupt end the other runs on.

Few more Sukenaga, both paperd katana

Hi Michael, yes. Observing conversations on here from time to time i get the impression that some folk assume that the work of a particular smith is the same throughout a career with regards where an hamon ends. The two swords above show that it is not the case and its just one example, both are ubu. Now this might sound trivial, but in fact its very important, well for me anyways. The bottom sword, well, that is from the same school and i just threw that in. I cant remember seeing anything quite like it for that school so may have to look into more of that smiths work.

Don't know about anyone else, but this particular little subject crops up now and again and to be honest it drives me nuts. Just to make a point 3 swords, the first 2 are papered to Sukenaga (late Edo) at 2 different times in his career The first, obvious where that ends. The second, if there was 2 ana then you could be forgiven for thinking this sword is machi-okuri The bottom sword is gimei Sukenaga, it was actually made by one of his pupils named Nagatsugu. Just thrown this in as a bit of crazy fun to show what's out there. If anyone comes across any other schools where you see differences in Ubu swords, throw them in !

On a wet and miserable Friday afternoon and the misses out, nothing better than drinking beer and window shopping. Just don't drink too much, you might buy something.

Was window shopping and noticed this one https://www.e-sword.jp/wakisashi/2210-2045.htm Blade length almost identical, Kirill mentioned late Muromachi proportions. Similar shaped nakago too. Always good to find stuff to compare to.

Maybe send it along with the other swords and get the polisher to let you know what he thinks, bet it would come up nice. Saying that though, im a bit like you in that i can now live with a sword in older polish, rather than mess about, get it. One for the back burner, for now. You have some clues to go at, bit more looking into needed. Good one to look into as well, different. Luckily, don't eat noodles haha

Hi Colin, These naginata type, i aint that familiar with. When i look at the pic without the mounts, it does come across very chunky for an intended one handed sword. Im not sure one way or another If you find it difficult in hand then a lot harder for us here. I cant even make out the hamon properly, not sure if i see notare thrown in with the gunome, and if thats the case then it opens over doors that ive been considering. Especially when you mention mokume/itame and dark steel. You thought about getting it polished ?,

Hi Colin, this is what i would do. Study the blade and its characteristics, then come up with school and approx age. Find other examples of said school and look at swords that are Ubu. You might be surprised to find other examples of that school which are Ubu and the hamon runs into the nakago, like yours. Ive done the same and found similar with a sword i once had. I think its a bit ignorant of us to say that every sword made had the hamon finish at an identical spot, on every blade ever made in history. As said, ive seen it with Uda, Years ago now and cant remember where i read or was told about it, but pretty sure someone mentioned a reason why you may see this, as the odd school thought it made for a stronger blade less likely to break in a particular spot. Wish i could add more detail, but just going of old memories of discussions here.

Hi Collin Very nice, I can see your quandary, why you think shortened. First thought was "should there be more ana than just the one", if shortened. Turns out you find shortened Nagamaki with one ana, like yours. Second thought was, its looks Ubu, with the neat Nakago-jiri Then i thought, is it possible it is one of the oddball schools where you see UBU swords where the hamon runs into the nakago. An Uda blade, as an example https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-4461836, though later such schools ? Cant make my mind up either yet haha, need a lot more time than i have now, see why your saying Mino. Ps, could do with length measurement and a really good pic of the blade showing the hamon clearer, i find a pic with the sun behind you works good on blades in older polish. Sure someone else will chime in

Good bit of info on these now. Still think they look more like Kanabou then Ken though

Not quite same as your tsuba though, with the pointy bits, another interpretation maybe.

Must admit, thought it was a bit weird for a Ken shape with the exaggerated width, but there are similar examples in Piers link.

Probably wrong, but when i first saw the design, reminded me of a mace. http://gunbai-militaryhistory.blogspot.com/2018/04/kanabou-samurais-mace.html

Whoever bought 11 got one hell of a good deal!

Whilst its nice owning swords i find it much easier to look at the excellent images that you can find on line where you can ZOOM in. That's for looking at tiny details like tight hada or hataraki. This thread has brought home something i learned many years ago. Sight is so precious, used to take it for granted but certainly don't nowadays.

For a split second i thought i saw the Warner Brothers logo, top left