Rivkin

I will do my usual stunt of being controversial. Its obvious the poster is trying to buy CHEAP authentic nihonto. There are more collectible blades, but... Though not in the same league as nihonto community luminaries, a tea master to Ashikaga Yoshimasa wrote a lengthy tractate on whether collecting should be started with minor or greater objects. The arguments made are all still valid today and he personally was on the side of minor, bright objects in near perfect condition as the best beginner's item. Well, this one sort of like this. One just needs to buy as cheaply as possible.

I think Shiboyama is very neat. Europeans absolutely hated shirosaya and overall did not care that much about the blades. Emperor Nicholas the 2nd had something like 10-13 blades outfitted with scrimshaw carved mounts so at least they would have some presentable look rather than shirasaya. However pre-Edo displays also tended to be in expensive mounts and never just shirasaya.

Option one: airmail (EMS) to the US, someone picking it up in the US and shipping any service to Germany. Option two: UPS. Requires special contract, but there is a considerable number of exporters in Japan who have those. I had issues with UPS.

They cut really well, and yes, they are the most brittle swords that ever existed in the world. You will not find non-Japanese blade with hagire and major chips also tend to be uncommon. There is a reason visible nie is considered major fault in other cultures. A great cutter with very low survivability.

The problem is that some images shown are also likely gimei. The case where specialized text cannot be replaced by search.

That looks like a typical circa 1920 collectable from a European traveler to Japan. They loved these things. It would cost some good money today, they do well at auctions and in Japan. The blade is most likely shinshinto or even very early showa.

They also did a review of the restoration work done in Nara Buddhist art museum's journal.

The cuts are deep, wide and fresh. More shinto than Kamakura cutting. Boshi is a bit weird too.

Yes, but I would argue its a bit more complicated. a. Early tsuba most likely came to the continent from Japan or at least appeared there much later and in direct proximity to Japan. b. ... and they were made by swordsmith who also made habaki. Continental swords did play with habaki for quite a long time. c. and on the continent for some reason the earliest tsuba were not round at all. but they already had "rim issues" so characteristic of the continental work. d. and then under the influence of someone (Japanese?) they became round to eggshaped. e. Around late 16th century one sees prolifiration of Japanese-style hirazukuri waki on the continent, not spreading though deep into China proper. It comes with Japanese styled tsubas, Vietnam and Korea also start using Japanese styled tsuba more and more often. f. At the same time very small number of original Chinese tsuba makes it to Japan. g. Japanese start to imitate Chinese work en masse. So at the same time you have tosho, saotome, myochin imitated everywhere around the continental coastline, often with rounded or extremely narrow (not too functional) hitsu ana, while at the same time Japanese began imitating Chinese motifs en masse.

Yeap, a common dugout guest but with long swords.

Regarding the photographs in the very beginning... Here is an early 17th century dugout find from the same region. Again, hirazukuri waki is the likely client.

That one is from a body of dugouts of quite a few Japanese-styled tsubas, late 16th to 17th century, which are found everywhere between North Korea, about 500km further north and to the east they are found as far away as Kurils and Sakhalin. For some reason while katana styled swords never gained particular traction there, hirazukuri wakizashi did, and were carried in huge quantities some as late as the 19th century. The nakago is continental (narrow, uniform width) but the fittings always tend to be Japanese styled. Quite a few have really narrow ana which are obviously useless on a waki which never had kozuka in the first place. I suspect they might be of continental origin. They are not too common, but among the collectors of such stuff they are quite popular. Also they often do not match very well the blades with which they are dug out, so must have been made some distance away. I don't put much stock into Sri-Lanka-VOC stuff, all these tsubas today are bought from Japan... Show us a Sri-Lankan dig. I think this one is Chinese, reworked in Japan.

My experience with museum stickers - never a year. Its department/shelf/number on the shelf kind of thing. Yes, museums place it everywhere - I've seen them engraved on blades of all things. Would REALLY benefit from a quality resolution nakago picture. I want to say shinshinto by default, but nakago can move it substantially earlier... I just can't see anything, there is like even a signature there. Such mounts do cost today some money.

Ask your Dojo sensei. That's whose opinion matters. Don't do it the first year. Even simply collectors actually have a very fine motorics which you see in every person who handled thousands of blades. I used to have holes in walls and ceilings. Not a single one for the past 10+ years. Yes, you can use Muromachi saiha, probably lower rank shinto swords like ugly-ish mumei Bungo. As long as its nothing important. If you actually behead people you can justify it that with worse swords the outcome and suffering are unpredictable.

Tom, sorry I feel the need to be unusually frank even for an extremely abrasive person like myself. Such is the subject. Nihonto community indeed functions as every other collecting community - in a sense that it is a community. With alphas, betas, omegas and sigmas. There is always a group of alpha-betas who do not have the money, but are very aggressive in positioning themselves as pillars of the community and the only path to enlightment. Usually centered around one or two alpha-males who are dealers, who might not even be visibly present. I am used to every second post on every forum I ever made being followed by piles of dirt deposited by some from such "inner" circles. Repetative statements that one shall not make an argument because, well, I did not bow to their circle for thirty years, while they did. Some of those are your friends. What I learned the hard way (after being served multiple criminal complaints) is that trying to build relationships with them is both dangerous and wasteful, since you'll be just junking your time at izakaya, while they will still be dedicating 100% of their effort to maintain the hierarchy. You'll know them for 20 years and "I above you" is the only thing that matters. Also, alike attracts alike, and these people are surrounded... well, by these people. As a result I am careful in general not to meet folks not fitting a certain profile. Jumping back to the club point - each club reflects a number of factors, background of participants, their relative strength etc. Yours is a good place, but with a specific mission. Does it feel like clubs in Japan? Not to me. Even less like something dedicated to tea ceremony or especially dedicated to the early prints. 95% of tea ceremony will be strictly a classroom with a show, acknowledging that the attendees are here only to observe one or two sessions. Prints tend to be far more relaxed, educated and egalitarian. Neither feels like a Dojo. But the environment in which I learned a LOT is actually quite specific: a few people passing one or two, seldom three or ten good blades around and exchanging opinions about it. Does it work with the "general" crowd? NO. There will be someone who every meeting dedicates half an hour to a prolonged stupidity. I get the reason why your club functions the way it is - a hierarchical classroom-dojo for seven people. Great. Not advocating to change it. My statement is simple: I in particular like a different format - few blades and extensive discussion. Did not see much of that in the US. Wonder if there is any interest in it.

It's probably the first post on Namban work where I actually agree with what is being stated. If I understand it correctly. Yes, there are Chinese tsuba of the style, they tend to be distinctive, iron ones can be somewhat simplistic, soft metal can be quite nice. The shape, the rim has certain tendencies which should not be ignored. 99.9% of what comes out of Japan are Japanese Namban tsuba. I think among Hizen tsuba there is a portion of Chinese ones. There are also 16th-17th century continental tsuba made to look Japanese. How would you attribute this one?

Well... I've been to plenty art collectors clubs and meetups. Wanted to find an overall picture of one of those, but its been years and all I can see is shot after shot of details and details... Packs of absolutely the best Duhrer prints... full albums of Van Leyden. Couple of really good oils. Earliest Sharaku and Yoshitoshi. Easily. The only thing which was quite a biiit uncomfortable is always being by far the poorest in the room, but the things you get to see are worth the humility... Even now, no longer keeping in touch, me a nobody with nonexistent standing in the community, I am sure I can hold half a dozen Rembrandts if I want to. Nihonto world is definitely not the most pleasant hierarchy... not the most awful either, that's also for certain. Has its own caveats I guess.

SF club is definitely a worthwhile and interesting place to visit, in large thanks to you and Fred running the place. Regarding it being the source of needed in person education, I personally take it as a more argumentative point, but the notion did much to define the club's mission and especially its protocol - definitely for the benefit of some of the attendees. What probably killed much of the real discourse in nihonto is papers. You don't know what the blade is? Paper it. Afterwords no need for the further discussion - the truth has been set. There are even multitudes of people screaming that any attempt at post-paper discussion is tantamount to treason... In most collectibles an item valuation is set by sort of collective perception of what its worth, so quite a few even high end collectors are moved to show and discuss their pieces so as to stay in touch with that general perception. Nihonto ones often feel they can only loose from their pieces being discussed.

10-20k is what Darcy used to call "the danger zone"... I would say its just a very unpopular price range. Its pre-Muromachi TH to a decent name. Its too cheap for the first class shinto name or any decent Juyo, too expensive for most regular blades. You can look into a dozen or so of US dealers in links, they tend to offer inspection period/moneyback.

Its Kiyomaro imitation.

Late shinshinto or later... can be early Showa. Wants to be Kiyomaro. I don't see exceptional; generally in exceptional work the choji are not as bland and kinsuji are bright with good nie... but it can be quite an attractive/fun piece.

Its more about old papers; unless its written down in the signature NBTHK has no way to clearly know what's the original source of the steel used. There are armor pieces, swords with old testaments as being made from old blades or old muskets. At the time the emphasis on tamahagane was non-existent. Swords could be made from whatever iron sources, some considered a bit more fashionable. Namban tetsu, anchors, "old recipes" including mixing tamahagane with gold dust.

I'll do my part by being a meanie. In most field being qualified does not mean you did something for 40 years. It means you achieved tangible results. The problem with the statement quoted is that you are being invited to "definitely" spend 4-6k USD without any notion of what this blade is besides that its "definitely Koto" and possibly Muromachi. That's pretty wide shot for an "expert". There are not many o-suriage Muromachi blades that are worth big money. The chance you'll get your investment's worth is slim. I don't know why so many people give the same advice "you have to have it polish and send it to shinsa". Why on earth would you do something so expensive without having a good guess regarding what it actually is??? Do you buy dirty paintings from thrift stores and send it to the top conservations? To have some bearing regarding what this one is, good pictures are needed of the boshi, hada and hamon. It does kind of look like one of the Yamato inspired works with a tendency for "weaker", less nie based hamon. These are seldom expensive in this condition.

Exactly! Different gatherings, different crowd can suit different needs. There is definitely room and need for education (teaching) styled events. I am thinking about something much more informal. I can imagine a possibility I am the only person of such inclination.

Gentlemen, I know the subject have been approached many times, but.... Any interest in organizing Yet Another Club? The purpose: looking at blades and talking blades. Why not any of the existing clubs? Well, people don't talk blades there. They don't argue. They don't discuss what should they bring the next time. You can't just ask "could you bring your Ichimonji". There is a Sensei. There is hierarchy. There are titles. There is (strict) protocol. Its like a child with Dojo father and an American country club mother. Maybe I am just inexperienced and this is the only way it can function. Yet somehow you come to Oxford-Cambridge or even Athenaeum, have a good time after work and never even know who's the current president is. I am sure I am missing something - but why can't it be that simple? Why not meet with blades say during a sword show? No hierarchy. No sensei. Collectors Non-anonymous. What's your favorite subject? Just discuss what we have and what we should show the next time. Japanese non-swords allowed. I am personally in California, so lucky enough to be in potential position to attend both SF and Las Vegas. Or we can meet off-show-season in the area.