drdata

Good q. I too await papers for a katana. I pinged Tom around 10/28 and he indicated the papers were at the calligraphers and he might receive them back by the end of November. So, should be pretty soon now. Perhaps in time for xmas! Regards

Interesting turn. I find myself on both sides. My will and aspirations far out reach my financial means(was that Schopenhauer that just rolled over? ), yet I'm not getting any younger and its hard to study only books. I too am a "fixer upper" and fancied the idea of projects pieces with low entry that later involved a polish. Does seem that with the yen/dollar as it is one is wiser to wait a bit and obtain in polish works, else prepare for a big hit down the road. This can take the fun out of an item as its not what you really wanted, and to make it so seems foolish, at least in this market. Given you could invest the polish money on another in-polish sword and likely come out ahead. But then, you feel guilty about neglecting the projects sword. Its almost like adopting a sick puppy because its cheap at the time. Not sure how this analogy will work with this worldly audience.

I think I get it! The senchi bit is "null" as no measurements appear above it in the sunpo column. It was there on to accommodate a case of a measurement in centimeters but was not used. And with that I have my missing kanji 有之, which I take to mean "it is/to be" in this context. Will do a final update to reflect the full translation. So very cool. Thanks again all

Thanks Piers, I follow the senchi combination. Still thrown by the "traditional measurement" on the right. I would assume this is some unit of measure that is equal in length to a centimeter. But try as I might I could find no such length unit with that "Z" like kanji. And nothing seemed to equal 1 centimeter, of course. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_units Is the "Z" like kanji supposed to be an romanji "e" like the way ン = "n"? So close. Thanks

Reinhard, truly appreciate the great info. I would have never got the hiragana part, and the mere mention of "Suwo" has opened some lines of investigation. Definitely tied into Nakata/choshu areas and the nio school; even had a battleship in namesake too it seems. The translation attempt has come along nicely and I've updated the attachments for those still following. I've not yet found what I consider matching kanji for "suwo" or its su/wo syllables, but I believe that is the correct translation. This leaves that small area at the bottom of #3. I think I see a Sichi/7 in there, but continue to be stumped. Is that "z" looking thing part of 沸え (NIE)? Thanks again

Thanks John. The pics posted at the start of this thread are as clear as they get; to fit my translation I had to enlarge hence pixilation. Also the native ppt is posted which can be opened for enlarged viewing/editing. The 壱 ichi bit had me. I was expecting the "-" and did not realize the alternative.; likewise with 鋩 for bo(shi). Looks like I guessed Nakago right. Makes me think the kanji directly below describes it, in which case I expect mention of Ubu, a single Mekugiana, Sujikai Yasurime, and/or Kuri-Jiri. I will go back to that section now that I know I'm on the right track. Hope the game ends to your liking. Cheers Edit> PS I have updated the previous pic/ppt with the delta (thanks again John) so as to avoid anyone wasting their time on formerly red areas.

bump I hope to get feedback on the sections I'm not able to translate (highlighted in red boxes), and quite happy to hear comments/corrections on what (I believe) is correct. I understand this is not a very sexy sword and a rather mundane request for those that are savvy in all this; I'll not bump again. Either way I'm very grateful for the assistance received so far. Best regards

Edit: The attachments have been updated and I beleive the translation is complete. Yea! I'm back with my best try at the translation of the inside. Took me several hours but I found this fun/informative. I hope this means I'm coming along on my nihonto geekdom. Areas in red are where I need help/hints. Red Kanji are those I think I know but cannot get an acceptable match; most significantly what I believe should be "Choshu" or "Nagata" as the province (kuni) in column 5; and a similar case with the "Waki" in what I think should be "Wakaisahi" in column 1, and for the "Bo" in Boshi in # 4. I suspect some of the remaining kanji relate to the nakago but not able to decode as yet. Also attaching in native ppt in case that helps. Thanks in advance. nthk_tranlsation_1984.ppt

As to acid, I believe it eats aways the softer metal helping to expose the layers. Making the hada pop out. Regards

To add, pics 8 and 9 look like two different kissakis. Regards

Thanks for the tips Koichi-san. I'm away on some business but hope to do the same for the inside upon return. PS> Is the era kanji correct for showwa? Maybe the calligraphy but I only new to put showwa there as someone told me the date was 1984 and no other era worked.

Thanks Jean. I see the smith there now as was suspecting "nio". I think the kanji/style for the shige 重, threw me as the paper has a more stylized "z" looking end. Regards

Hey, me again. Sorry for the delay. I wanted to follow up on a few fronts. 1. Expert assistance and opinions should not be free. I've followed up on my promise to make a small donation to help support this great site. I recently used the for sale section here to acquire a nice wak in a pain free manner and am gracious for the much needed alternative to ebay. "Confirmation number: 74H71009GS264254P. " 2. I have made an attempt to translate my paper in a manner that I hope may be useful to others. For now I post the outer portion. I could use a confirm on the date, which I believe should start with "showwa" and on the 2nd column. The kanji for showwa do not match to my satisfaction, and I'm not having much lick on column 2, which I believe states the school and starts with "ni", as in perhaps "nio"? I still have work to do on the inside but have the era and lengths done. Amy comments, corrections, or hints on column 2 much appreciated: Edited to reflect school/smith thanks to Jean!

I am of no help. Why waste your time? Because I'm near to finishing your book and wanted to say thanks. I really enjoyed it and found the art/history to be a real bonus. That said, I just acquired a kanbun era wak from kiyoshige. Not done w/research but find your comments above interesting. Regards and thanks again.

Wow, much obliged, as always gentlemen. I wish I could reciprocate. I think I'll donate to the site, and if anyone breaks down or needs furniture moved in the LA area then ping me.... And to confirm, the 10 vs 6 columns/fields is a function of old vs new certificate, right? Had a hard time finding any examples that match mine and assumed its as most don't deal in the "lowly" shinteisho level. Now that I know what's there I promise to do some homework and map the 10 columns shown on RS's site to the 6 on mine. I know something must be missing. Clearly its not the dimensions. And yes, this is a wak. I like it though. Oldest thing I've ever touched....

I'd like validation and if possible a translation of the below NTHK paper. I have looked at: http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/origami.htm But I'm confused as the number of columns documented there does not match mine. Is this because the papers are old (from mid 80s I believe), or because the SHINTEISHO level has less details? For example its seems that column 3, which according to link above should have the blade dimensions, is missing. Thanks in advance. regards

True. I meant to limit my points to "ubu nakata". I can only think of two reasons for a smith not to sign at the time: 1. A lesser work he did not want to be associated with 2. Illiterate/known to never sign for some reason I can understand that mediocre work by a great smith (and so mumei) can be far better than a signed work from a lesser. But this still means one would prefer a signed work from the better smith, unless # 2 above. Another option is that what appears mumei ubu isn't. Perhaps having in the past been judged gimei and now with an altered nakago that looks ubu. Interesting discussion.

Seems clear that the pros feel mumei is a-ok. I mean, it least its not gimei. But, the the facts and fundamentals book I got the impressions that as a rule all smiths signed there work unless the blade was inferior. Have also heard a smith might make a few blades for an order and then only sign the one that is selected. Which is it? To me it makes some sense that, on average, a signed work is better than unsigned. I know when I'm proud of my work I take credit, else happy to let folks guess. Seems clear that folks here feel there are many high-qual mumei blades. Why did some smiths opt not to sign them? Regards

But, as I understand you cannot pass shinsa with gimei. And if there are so many out there it can cause temptation to remove and "professionally" re-patina the nakago. So, is it a really ubu or simply no longer a gimei? I understand there can be ways of telling but have heard of swords passing shinsa after such treatment. Sad. especially if, as above, the smith was simply hung over that day. Regards

bullet dodged. NMB to the rescue. Some never forget a face. You all, a blade. Regards

Noting that the ebay header states: "Returns: No returns accepted. Covered by eBay Buyer Protection- opens in a new window or tab. " However, a ways down in the description it does state 3 day inspection if other than described. I'd update the main ebay listing to reflect this. Somehow seems more official and definitely more noticeable. Also, most guarantee only against fatal flaws/condition as the act of kantei is somewhat subjective. Perhaps here you are also guaranteeing the anonymous expert's judgment as to maker and era. May want to clarify either way. Regards

Not quite sure this is what you were asking. Why would I not buy this for 2k? 1. No return policy is a turn off. 2. Pics are not that great. (ebay listing only) 3. No pics of nakago 4. Buy the sword, not the story. I find the pitch a bit much and raises some alarms. Just me though. As to why folks spend 1000s on phony or real but low-quality NCOs I cannot say. If the sword is as good as you believe, then I would list here with a return privilege and good tang pics. Folks here will know a bargain. Regards Edit: A 5th point is lack of previous auctions for nihonto and related paraphernalia. Last sword sold was in 07. Folks on ebay want a bargain. If I am going to pay a dealer price might as weal deal with a dealer that is known for this type of material. PS> Stephen, did you spot something nefarious in that url? Do we all get our emails snagged when we view ebay items? With my moniker you think I would know, but I deal in the network, layers 1-4, not data processing at 5-7, which is where the html/cgi comes in.

The blade seems very nice. And I think a good price for a gendaito off ebay in that condition. Perhaps someone like Chris/George can elaborate on the smith. As an RJT smith it must be high quality. Congrats. Regards

Brian, as FYI the seller's name is still in the subject of some postings... Based on that I looked at the history of some sold items and see nothing unusual. Does not prove no shill, but find ebay is full of people with the same "good idea". Very common to see the price double in the last few seconds.

Ha, my most active thread yet. As a mono-lingual American I can attest to much that is said here. They say when young the brain easily adapts to new languages, and I missed that stage (being American), so now I have to brute force it. I was amazed how the average Dutch person can speak 4 languages rather fluently, and how they would often start in Dutch and then effortlessly transition to "yank" as soon as I spoke (or looked confused). But, as an American I am a rather crack shot, even with a sling shot. Perhaps not a skill shared by most Dutch. Only so much gray matter to work with I suppose. I can recall complaining in Spanish/German class about how hard their gender rules were. Compare that to Japan's Kanji, Kana, Hiragana, Katakana, and romanji, with differences in both written and spoken form based on gender and who knows what other sets of rules (foreign term (which assumes you know enough of their culture to know what is indigenous), vs combination words vs..) and it seems hopeless to get it all right. Limiting oneself to kanji translation perhaps spares one much of this, but dang they made this hard. And don't even get me started on the sheer number of kanji along with the relative artistic skill needed just to render one correctly. When you consider the average Japanese person like as not speaks fluent English I feel at a real disadvantage. I think I need to go find that sling shot. Regards