Tsuba - any ideas ?

[Martin]

Hi all,

 

can anybody help me to find out about school, design and approximate age of this Tsuba?

The patina actually looks much better in real than it does on the pictures.

 

Measures:

 

height: 6.9 cm

width: 6.8 cm

thickness: 0.5 cm

 

 

Thanks in advance,

Martin

[Henry Wilson]

Might be Akasaka, early Edo. The design could be stylised Musashino grass.

[Bungo]

i see no grass...............may be I smoked 'em

 

:lol:

 

milt the ronin

[Henry Wilson]

Yes, the grass is a long shot I know, but just have one more and look at the following link.

 

The fifth one down by Tadamume 5th / Tadatora 3rd, has the Musashino grass in overlaid circles and looks sort of like Martin's.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~jggilbert/akasaka.htm

[Rich T]

Edo period I think, these style of tsuba are seen a bit. Maybe late Owari, or it may be a Shoami copy. The broad seppa dai and the lack of surface detail points to mid Edo for me. The theme may be 4 birds, it's a generic kind of theme seen a lot in Owari. It may also be a late Akasaka tsuba as well I guess but I kind of doubt it. As you see I have no real idea LOL, just shooting the breeze.

 

Rich

[Nobody]

As for its motif, what do you think of this?

If the four patterns are reversed, do they look like the same pattern?

[Henry Wilson]

Hi Noboby

 

The design you have is warabite 蕨手 or fern stalks. The difference between yours and Martin's is that in your example the ends are turned in. In Martin's example the ends are straight which I think has significances as warabite is quite a common theme and from my limited experience they all tend to have turned in ends.

[Nobody]

Hi Henry,

 

The motif I showed is not Warabite, though it looks like that.

The motif is Kan (鐶). That means a knob of a drawer.

 

FYI; Kan

http://www.otomiya.com/kamon/kibutsu/kan.htm

[Martin]

Hi,

 

well thanks a lot for your thoughts, "breeze-shootings" and long shots so far :lol:

 

cheers,

Martin

[Henry Wilson]

You're welcome and also from me too, thank you Noboby for the information

[Bungo]

something similar..........

rope mimi 7 treasures tsuba ???

 

MILT THE RONIN

[Rich T]

My idea of birds in the design. Remember, this is just as likely to be 'A' design, and nothing else. With many the Owari works ( Owari sukashi, Kanayama, Onin etc ) many designs were just that, designs.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[nagamaki - Franco]

My idea of birds in the design. Remember, this is just as likely to be 'A' design, and nothing else. With many the Owari works ( Owari sukashi, Kanayama, Onin etc ) many designs were just that, designs.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

 

Wild geese, perhaps, if "nothing else."

[Rich T]

Hi Franco, yes, I should have said geese instead of just birds. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[Rich T]

Hi Noboby

 

The design you have is warabite 蕨手 or fern stalks. The difference between yours and Martin's is that in your example the ends are turned in. In Martin's example the ends are straight which I think has significances as warabite is quite a common theme and from my limited experience they all tend to have turned in ends.

 

Henry, Koichi et all, I also have a similar tsuba Koichi provided in the first book published by the KTK, page 28. Listed as Owari and described as Kan (pull) theme I do not have the kanji for it sorry.

 

Rich

 

SORRY, I just say Koichi's thread with Kan and kanji.

[Pete Klein]

I have the feeling this is an Akasaka, mid to late Edo tsuba, most probably by one of the Tadatoki's. The theme of the sukashi does seem to be 'Kan', or drawer handle shape, or as Sasano Sensei would probably have called 'Quatrefoil' (mokko) -- {see picture from 'Sasano -- Masterpieces' book, 1994 of Owari tsuba, 'wa-ni-mokko' or circle and quatrefoil (approx. translation)}. The metal of Martin's tsuba has the hard, even texture, taste if you will, of the later milled stock used after the early Edo period, and the color of patina is along the line of that found in Akasaka guards (a slight hint of reddish brown is sometimes seen). The form is flat with an even thickness from center to mimi, an Akasaka trait, with the mimi of 'kaku-ko-niku' shape. In contrast to the other schools where the mimi tends to be flatter with a more acute turn into the edge, Akasaka has this 'square with meat' shape where the turn is a bit more gradual. The shape of the seppadai has been bothering me but it occurred to me after review of several books over the last few days that the elliptical shape of the Akasaka seppadai (a bit more narrow at the top than bottom) is really not fixed but changes with the overall design demand. If you look at this piece there is really no way to make an elliptical shape here as it would force an abbreviation of the quatrefoil above it. I have the feeling that overall symmetry of design ruled in this case. Also the elliptical form seems to be more exagerated in the earlier pieces, the 'Ko Akasaka' if you will. Not being able to see into the sukashi it is difficult to tell the age but they look to be clean and this would tend to indicate a later date of age. Another Akasaka trait is the sharpness of the angle of cut of the sukashi (called 'kittate' or straight and stiff as a cliff). Other schools exhibit some niku (curvature) to the edge (called 'menwo toru' - slightly rounded) where here it seems quite acute. The only question I have is with the kogai-bitsu which is a bit constricted as would be found in earlier examples so I leave this open to further examination. In all if called on I would have place my bet on Akasaka.

[Martin]

Hi Pete and others,

 

thanks very much for your highly interesting and educational thoughts.

I find it very difficult to attribute a certain piece to a school or master and am therefore very grateful for having this board and the opportunity to share knowledge and opinions.

 

many thanks,

Martin