How many gimei tadayoshi can there be???

[Jimmy R]

I have a question for the members. Several years ago I bought a Nihonto from Joe Perdua that was signed Hizen Kuni Tadayoshi. It was a very nice looking sword and he really wanted a handle from a gunto I owned. I sent him that tsuka and $1000.00. A couple of weeks after owning this blade and purchasing the Hizento Handbook I realized it was gimei. He would not let me return it and I have been since stuck with it. My question is how many gimei tadayoshi are there out there? I just saw one on eBay Item number: 230691176774

and people are actually bidding on it. Is this a common occurrence? Has anyone gone through this before?

Jim

[paulb]

Jim,

The number of gimei tends to be proportional to the popularity of the smith. Tadayoshi was and is amongst the top 3 or 4 Shinto smiths and has always been greatly prized. Not surprisingly there are a lot of fakes, most likely more than there are genuine work. In Tadayoshi's case this is made even more cmplex by the number of students signing on his behalf.

Cant remember which smith the comment related to but it could be equally true of Tadayoshi "For every 10 Tadayoshi blades you see 11 of them are fakes"

[eternal_newbie]

Slightly off-topic: paulb, I believe the smith that the "11 of them are fakes" comment referred to was Kotetsu. Can't remember exactly where I heard/read the original quote though...

[Brian]

Jim,

I'm surprised that you are surprised.

I think there are probably thousands of gimei Tadayoshi. One of the more faked smiths, and any Tadayoshi without papers should be treated as gimei until proven differently. Doesn't mean the sword is not a nice sword.

 

Brian

[Jimmy R]

I am actually surprised every time I am on eBay. I cannot believe what people are patting for machine made swords from WWII. The tadayoshi thing just seems so disproportionate. I wonder if it is just because Tadayoshi and his lineage was really just the beginning of the end of the pure sweat and blood tradition of Nihonto fabrication. In the various revivals all true arts undergo it seems recently the popularity of that tradition especially in the realm of the serious collector has become a focal point. Maybe what we are looking at then is a mirror of similar interests peaking at different times throughout recent history and how man instinctively without moral distinction profits from said interest. Do not get me wrong, Hizen-to stand on their own as serious weapons and obsession worthy objects of art, but after posting this and placing all my thoughts together I am beginning to see how this field I love so much has way more depth and complexity on every possible level than I ever imagined. So does the tadayoshi lineage represent a transitional focal point point the key being FOCAL, for lovers of Nihonto in the purest and most accessible sense? I do not know. But I do know that every Nihonto I hold in my hand has an answer to some such question. I just want to contribute and help preserve.

Jim

[estcrh]

In Tadayoshi's case this is made even more complex by the number of students signing on his behalf.

This is a fascinating subject in its self as blades signed in this manner are not considered to be gimei. I have always wondered how these dai mei blades were differentiated from gimei blades when being sold and at shinza.

 

http://meiboku.info/mei/types/index.htm

Dai Mei:This is a signature of a smith which is chiselled on a nakago by his family or students, with his permission. It is regarded as a genuine signature.

 

Dai Saku Mei :Swords made in a smith's style by his students with his permission were often signed personally by the smith. This is called dai saku mei and is regarded as genuine.