Can a Katana Kake be dated by the lacquer colour?

[Lindus]

This stand came to me via a great old fellow who lived in a tiny cottage surrounded by some great stuff {see Warabite-To},according to FAT it came from Germany in the late twenties, a present from a "princeling" {his words} who fled Germany bringing a large oriental collection with him. Frank was loaned by his university in Oxford to catalogue the mans collection but this is a long and strange story for another day. When finished the story goes that a chap driving a Hispano swiza {?} presented him with a case containing four sword,one hundred assorted menuki,fifty Tsuba and one sword stand.

 

Now to the question, the black lacquer is becoming brown, I have seen old lacquer where the undercoating is red to show through but mainly due to over zealous polishing,this has never had more than a dusting. At 55cm between support sections it was designed for long swords and although Frank thought it to be 17th century I have not a clue other than it is at least eighty years old.

 

Any ideas gentlemen?.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[cabowen]

UV seems to change black to brown over time...I have seen this many times....

[Justin Grant]

The mon is Wakizaka or appears to be. I found some other references to another clan that used the mon, but little information. Wakizaka was from the late 1550's to 1626 I believe when the clan ended.

 

I own a dou with this mon and you can see the flags here

 

 

 

Anyway, not saying this is the family or era, just what research I know on the double rings.

[Lindus]

FAT had this as...... the mon of the Wakisaki Yasuharu of Tatsuno inHarima,c 1620-30

 

Roy

[Lindus]

UV seems to change black to brown over time...I have seen this many times....

 

 

I suppose that the time span is so variable as to be vitual impossibility to date.

Roy

[Justin Grant]

I'd say if authentic to the time of Wakizaka it is no later than 1626-1630.

[Jean]

Interesting, I am not going to date it but some one told me that multi branches katana kake were usually made for sword sellers/merchants meaning at the earliest in the 19th century.

[Bugyotsuji]

In light of what Jean says I think the best we can do with an object like that is to study what was in fashion and from when. Mon can be and often were added later, at a price.

 

The degree of lacquer fade can only be an indication of presence or absence of age, (ie brand new or not) but it will not be accurate. Lacquerware stored in a box may keep a much darker color/colour, whereas something like a Katana-tate may have been exposed to light over the years.

 

Even a very black lacquer will appear brown under a flashlight/torch beam if it is old. New lacquer will appear black even under strong light.

 

I have two manuscript boxes that I believe were made in the Muromachi period. The defining factor is the style as much as or more than the state of the lacquer. Pictures of these should be appearing in This Week's Edo Corner.

[Lindus]

Interesting, I am not going to date it but some one told me that multi branches katana kake were usually made for sword sellers/merchants meaning at the earliest in the 19th century.

 

 

Hi Jean

Good thought pattern,seem to remember,perhaps in Sword & Sam'e, that they had dealer shops way back in the 1500,you were about then...remember?

 

Regards

Roy