shira saya

[peter]

hi to all,

just a question on shira saya, are there differant types? styles? if so is it era based or on style of blade,

peter

[b.hennick]

Yes!

The shirasaya has to match the shape of hte blade. Some shirsaya are more oval in shape others seemto be octagons. The handle part of the shirasaya can have some shape as well - not just a continuation of the saya. Some shirasaya have ivory around the mekugi ana. Others have a horn rectangle. I have seen reed wrapped in places around the saya. There is tiger stripped wood on high end shirasaya. Like many other Japanese products there are different levels of quality. There are varying levels of quality among shirasaya makers in general.

Older shirasaya develop a great patina. I have an old blade that had a sayagaki done by Tanobe San and he only cleaned one side to preserve the patina on the rest of the shirasaya.

[peter]

Thank you Barry,

iI have a few myself in shira saya which are the more common type seen, slightly rounded edges and uniformed from saya to tsuka but recently have seen a few not so streamlined, broad and the point the tsuka meets the saya, narrowing in the centre and slightly flared again towards the kashira, i just wondered if this was just a personal preferance as i didn,t get the opportunity to ask at the time,

Peter

[hybridfiat]

Can you date a saya from it's shape or style?

[Toryu2020]

There are styles of shirasaya based on the place or region of manufacture,

I have not seen any good documentation on this in English or Japanese, an area of interest for me so if anybody knows of a good source I'd love to hear it. I was told that Daimyo at least had saya-shi to make shirasaya for all the better blades in their warehouse. Early sayagaki were often little more than the mei or "catalog" numbers inscribed by the lords curator of swords.

 

With some study I suppose you could guess at age but without a dated sayagaki and lacking evidence of machine tooling all you have to go on is patina of the wood. Most importantly inside the tsuka and koiguchi...

-t

[sanjuro]

This is an area of interest for me also. Like Tom I have never found any written information on the various styles. These days one can have a shirasaya made in whatever style one pleases and I would suppose this is also true of shirasaya throughout the ages, at least to a point. Saya shi are also often left to decide the style of shirasaya on the basis of the style of the blade within, and it would be nice to know what conventions they based that decision upon. I have heard that the tensho style tsuka on shirasaya roughly corresponds to the popularity of that style on katana. The horn and ivory inserts one finds on some shirasaya are perhaps affectations of the Edo period when many of these higher end shirasaya that we have today were made.

These are however things that one hears in passing and may or may not have a foundation in fact. It seems that this would be a good area for an enterprising researcher to delve into and record his findings for posterity maybe?

[peter]

Good comments guys.

Glad I asked now. Still scarce on pictorial info though I must see if I can source some.

Peter

[sanjuro]

Peter.

 

There is a whole chapter (with pictures and illustrations) devoted to the making of shirasaya in "The Craft of the Japanese Sword" by Kapp and Yoshihara. It deals to some extent with your query and is too lengthy to include here as an attachment. It may be worth your while to get a copy or at least borrow one. Theres a whole load of other interesting stuff in there too.

[Lorenzo]

I think that "Sayashi" website is a pearl.

http://www.sayashi.com/

 

I don't know him, perhaps many of you knows..

 

In this particular page, he says:

 

When the final shape is acheived with the larger planes, shiage begins with the rounding of flat surfaces using small polishing planes. In this case, the saya is an eight sided type and the surfaces are contoured to feel comfortable in the hand

This stage is solely dependant on the eye of the sayashi. The style of shiage used can quickly identify the maker.

 

I don't know how the style can quickly identify the maker, but he seems very informed 'cause some of the stuff he makes are almost never seen in other sources (like the doubled shirasaya).

I wonder if he could help the discussion out adding some information about the styles.

[peter]

well Keith thanks for the steer, the book is ordered and Lorenzo that is a cracking site, step by step on shira saya, the reason for the post in the 1st place was mostly to ask if i had an option as i have a Wakizashi of to polish and shira saya after, as i have a few blades mounted in shirasaya at the moments i maybe wanted something a little differant, as in the outward apperance,

Peter

[Lorenzo]

If you want something a little different from what I see from your pic, and if your chosen artisan can do it, here is an idea:

 

 

 

This has water buffalo horn inserts, fuchi and koiguchi and mekugi.

 

There is another beautiful variation of the plain shirasaya; it has some "stripes" of different colour at wide distance between each other. If I can find a picture I will post it; it is not common, and usually find in precious/expensive blades only.

[Lorenzo]

..and just as a side note; usually nihonto are displayed with the handle on the other side.

[Lorenzo]

Here you can see an image of the shirasaya with "stripes (..)" I mentioned before:

 

http://www.nihonto.ca/yukimitsu-4/

[peter]

Many thanks Lorenzo,

Ammended