Was This Tsuba Worth The Price?

[cluckdaddy76]

First. this is for studying purposes only, I did not bid on this item. I will say it looked to be very nice work and does have modern Hozon papers, but it went for much more than I expected. It ended up going for about $6,125 USD with fees (shipping not included), and if shipped to the US it would be another $918 USD roughly. It is a quality piece, but the price surprised me. Just curious what some of the knowledgeable people on here think about the cost. Here is the link.

 

https://www.jauce.com/auction/r1242037885    

 

Jason

[Spartancrest]

I guess with 109 bids back and forth - someone thought it was worth the expense, but they could have had a very similar piece for a thousand less in price at a bonhams auction.

This sold for £4,000 OR  $5416.86 USD   https://www.bonhams.com/auction/20555/lot/20/an-iron-tsuba-by-morikawa-masakage-tanaka-school-19th-century/      By Morikawa Masakage, Tanaka school, 19th century

 

  A close utsushi in the Metropolitan Museum https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/34937 by  壽景「花押」 Toshikage + kaō

Edited September 1 by Spartancrest
typo

[Curran]

Antiquities are now excluded from tariffs. [However, my new expensive Shimano fishing reel is not.]

 

Without even looking up the specific maker, I assume it is a Tanaka tsuba.

The fan-base is quite rabid. 

 

Given size, condition, and authentication papers, -I am surprised it did not go for more.

To some people, including a few members here, this is really cheap.

Welcome to the K-shaped economy.

[Jesta]

“Worth” is an interesting question… Something is only worth what someone will pay for it, so in this case it was worth it to someone. I am not sure that I would be prepared to pay that amount (particularly for something off Jauce), but it is a very nice piece. 

[cluckdaddy76]

First, thanks for the replies. I guess what I meant by worth is that in my opinion many auction pieces (especially mid-range say from $500-$2,000) have been going for much higher prices from say two years ago. To me it seems there has been an uptick in collectors. I watch nearly all the auctions except E-bay, and this is the trend I have noticed with the majority of them. Curran, I had a different experience with tariffs here in the US. When the first round was applied, I purchased a tsuba and did not pay anything. Then when those were removed and our glorious leader imposed a 15% one across the board, I did pay tariffs on a tsuba and a kozuka which I bought in February and March. I may start shopping again if the tariffs are no longer applied. This was a nice piece, and I have now learned that this school can command the prices that it did sell for. Maybe one day I would be confident enough to bid $6,000 on a Jauce item, but not right now . I think I would only make substantial purchase from a dealer or trusted private seller or established auction house. I have heard mixed things about Jauce.

 

Jason

[Jesta]

This is typically the case with antiques. They go through popular periods when the prices are high, and lulls where you can’t sell them… Take brown furniture right now, beautiful Georgian pieces are going for a song at auction houses in the UK, whereas 20 years ago there was strong demand. 

I find that the best thing to do is to focus on items that you really love, decide what you want to pay for them, and don’t go past that. If you are a dealer trying to make a profit it must be stressful, but as a collector who just wants to enjoy the pieces I buy then I am more relaxed about whether they hold their resale value. 

[Curran]

1 hour ago, Jesta said:

This is typically the case with antiques. They go through popular periods when the prices are high, and lulls where you can’t sell them… Take brown furniture right now, beautiful Georgian pieces are going for a song at auction houses in the UK, whereas 20 years ago there was strong demand. 

I find that the best thing to do is to focus on items that you really love, decide what you want to pay for them, and don’t go past that. If you are a dealer trying to make a profit it must be stressful, but as a collector who just wants to enjoy the pieces I buy then I am more relaxed about whether they hold their resale value. 

 

Very sound advice. 

" focus on items that you really love, decide what you want to pay for them, and don’t go past that."

Long ago, I collected wine before I really got into tosogu.  Luckily, the wine markets taught me Justyn's advice. You may not get what you most want at a moment in time, but you will probably end up with what makes you happy. 

 

 

[Jake6500]

20 hours ago, cluckdaddy76 said:

First, thanks for the replies. I guess what I meant by worth is that in my opinion many auction pieces (especially mid-range say from $500-$2,000) have been going for much higher prices from say two years ago. To me it seems there has been an uptick in collectors. I watch nearly all the auctions except E-bay, and this is the trend I have noticed with the majority of them. Curran, I had a different experience with tariffs here in the US. When the first round was applied, I purchased a tsuba and did not pay anything. Then when those were removed and our glorious leader imposed a 15% one across the board, I did pay tariffs on a tsuba and a kozuka which I bought in February and March. I may start shopping again if the tariffs are no longer applied. This was a nice piece, and I have now learned that this school can command the prices that it did sell for. Maybe one day I would be confident enough to bid $6,000 on a Jauce item, but not right now . I think I would only make substantial purchase from a dealer or trusted private seller or established auction house. I have heard mixed things about Jauce.

 

Jason

Firstly, I agree with you that Tosogu auction prices have gone up, even in just the past 12 months or so this has been noticeable for me with soft-metal works. I think the market is high right now which is only slightly offset by the weak yen at the moment. Luckily I don't have to worry about US tariffs, however here in Australia GST is always a concern, especially on more expensive pieces.

 

As for this specific item, I think the value of a piece depends on a number of factors specific to the piece and the buyer. What type of collection are you building? What is the level of NBTHK certification on the piece? Is it a rare master-student gassaku or a travel piece? Is the artist highly renowned? Is the motif popular or desirable? Is it from a renowned collection with provenance? All these things play a role in determining a value of the piece to the buyer.

 

Personally, I would not bid such a high amount on a piece with regular Hozon certification under almost any circumstances, however I might make an exception if it was a Hamano school piece with a number of additional desirable conditions - Eg. A piece by Hamano Shozui, the founder of the school with a highly interesting or desirable cultural motif. This is because my aesthetic preference and main collection focus lies in the chiaroscuro style of mixed metal Hamano school works.

 

But as a general rule? I'd be expecting Tokubetsu Hozon certification for most Tosogu above the 300,000 to 400,000 yen price point. I recently lost an auction for a kozuka by a highly desirable artist from the Hamano school with a highly desirable Fudo Myoo motif carved in rich shakudo. The piece also had museum catalogue numbers indicating it came from an early Western collection which gave it additional provenance and would have been a strong candidate for Tokubetsu Hozon papers. It sold for (I think) 466,000 yen. Part of the reason I let it go was budget constraints, but I would have bowed out at around 350,000 yen regardless because at that point you're already paying clear Tokubetsu Hozon certified prices.

 

For comparison, I purchased a Tokubetsu Hozon certified Hamano Noriyuki II kozuka a few months ago for half that price at 200,000 yen. I think I got a good deal on that piece, but if that's what a Tokubetsu Hozon piece by a well renowned artist can go for, why should I pay double that for a piece that only has Hozon certification, even if it has everything else going for it? Unless you're a millionaire and bank notes aren't worth the paper their printed on to you because your account has that many zeroes, but that's a whole different scenario!

 

TLDR; I think that price is way too high, unless you have a lot of money and are building a collection specifically targeting that school, artist and/or motif.