Pole arm fittings? Yari and Naginata? Shipping pole koshirae?

[GreyVR]

I occasionally see a fantastic naginata or yari I'd like to buy. Sometimes I speculate on what it would take to have a koshirae made for one.
[ I'm aware this might not be the best economic choice.]

But I thought I'd ask the group what the state of affairs on such a project actually is like? 

I'm also interested in hearing from anyone who has had a pole koshirae shipped uncut from Japan or Europe. 

I have had polearms shipped before. Over my television are a pair of Uhlan lances, likely two of the last lances to be professionally mass produced for horse cavalry in the history of the world. They were made in Solengen for Uhlans and are about 12 feet long. They only had to come two states, but the shipping was freight and absolute murder. Shipping them cost more than the lances did! I bring it up to show I'm not totally ignorant of the issues with shipping pole arms. I've never done it internationally. 

If I did want to buy a yari or naginata with koshirae, (Or a pole koshirae without a blade) what is the state of international shipping from Japan (or Europe) for such an item? Does anyone have experience? [Also, is koshirae still the right term for a pole mounting as it is for a sword?]

Absolutely opposed to cutting an original shaft! 

If I wanted to have a shaft made in the states, does anyone know anything about the shaft fittings or someone who makes either modern metal fittings or polearm shafts? I found a reference to a place that made naginata fittings, but they appear to be defunct. I've never seen naginata or yari antique fittings for sale by themselves though occasionally a full (or partial) koshirae will come up. I imagine part of that is because they are less artistically embellished than sword fittings but it would seem like a few should be on the market somewhere.

So that's one of my questions, what's the state of the market, if it exists at all, for antique polearm metal fittings and also for modern reproduction fittings? 

I've also no idea how the shafts were made in period. A deep square hole in a pole would seem like a hard thing to cut, so perhaps there was a trick to it. I recently learned that they should have a taper all the way from the butt to the head, which is a difficult thing as well! 

Thank you all in advance. 
 

[Brian]

They aren't tapered, but usually slightly oval. There are lots of poles available in Japan. I think often they find unregistered yari, destroy the blade and sell the poles.
I also struggle with the same thing, shipping to SA is impossible. But frankly, although I am opposed to cutting a genuine one, cutting it and having it properly re-attached (there are ways it would be not visible) is preferable to having a new one made. Sorry I don't have answers, I was lucky to find 2 original yari with poles here in South Africa a few years back, something I would have thought unlikely.
Also, I believe they cut a section out of the top part....essentially a slice down the middle and then a cross cut. They then inlet for the nakago, and the cut out piece is reattached and secured with bindings/glue etc. This is how they do the inletting of the tang. 
Btw, the comment above about oval poles may relate more to naginata. Yari poles may be round, the oval section of a naginata pole is to orientate where the cutting edge is.

[Hector]

Not a perfect solution, being modern reproductions, but I noticed Nosyudo of Gifu manufacture fittings for both yari and naginata (on page 42).

 

https://nosyudo.jp/catalogs/EnglishCatalog2025.pdf

If you could source an antique set of the same, perhaps you could then have the lacquered pole and mounts made by one of the excellent craftsmen in the States?

 

Good luck!

 

Hector

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Yari poles originally came in different 'standard' lengths of course, which could vary by age or by region. The famous 三間槍 Sangen yari was 5.45 meters long, but some were longer.　(See below)

Even within Japan today the longest ones 長柄槍 (naga-e no yari) still require serious logistical consideration in order to transport and display.

 

Shipping abroad. 

Hard to generalize, but not an easy prospect to ship intact. Most carriers will refuse if the paperwork suggests any type of weapon.

Each carrier will have different rules on maximum length of package... 150 cm(?) for Japan Post, etc.

A friend who was a BA captain carried home a long yari in his cockpit one time, he was telling me. A merchant mariner might be able to move yari as souvenir.(?)

 

Some interesting yari lengths and descriptions.

物見槍： 約2m前後で、偵察兵が使用する槍。偵察活動中に目立たないよう短く設計されています。
用心槍： 2～2.5ｍで、護身用の槍。主に家の中で使用されることを想定しており、比較的短い場合が多いです。
馬上槍： 2～2.5ｍで、騎馬武者が使用する槍。馬の背丈に合わせた長さが求められ、槍の先端にある細い穂は馬上の戦闘に適しています。
士の槍： 2.5～3.5ｍで、個人用の槍。武将を含む個人が所持する槍であり、多様な形状や長さの槍が存在します。
持槍： 3.5～5ｍで、足軽向けの槍。柄を長くした槍で、長いものでは5mに達するものもあります。
長柄槍： 4.5～6.5mで、非常に長い槍。織田家では３間半（約6.3ｍ）の長さの槍が使用され、上杉家や北条家では２間半（約4.5ｍ）の長柄槍が使われていました。

【戦国時代】槍の歴史や種類について解説「6mの槍もあった」 - 草の実堂

https://kusanomido.com/study/history/Japan/sengoku/77937/

 

PS I have a 二間槍 Ni-gen yari at 3.6 meters (12 feet with saya) which takes up one side of the entrance hall.

[John C]

Some additional information on pole shapes.

 

John C.

p.s. For all interested, this is from Japanese Polearms available for free on the Internet Archive.

[GreyVR]

9 hours ago, Brian said:

They aren't tapered, but usually slightly oval.

I hope you'll give me leave to debate that!

... Actually you say that relates more to naginata. Quite true. My statements on taper do NOT apply to naginata, only to yari. But on spears a taper is very desirable.

I confess I've less time handling original polearms then I would like, but as a source I can say arms youtuber and antique arms dealer Matt Easton said on his youtube that the yari he's handled were tapered as it makes the point lively and more controllable. 

I did write a good bit on why this is, but then I saw you were mostly mentioning naginata. The very short explanation (if anyone who comes by needs it) is that a hammer is a high polar moment item, with the weight away from the hand so it delivers hard blows, but if you turn the hammer over and hold it by the head, the handle will become very easy to control because the weight is in your hand and at/close to the center of rotation instead of being at/close to the center of percussion. 

As such, a lively and easy to redirect point is very, very desirable on a thrusting weapon like a rapier or a spear, but less so on a cutting weapon like a naginata or halberd. 

Here are Matt's videos on the Yari. His channel has several, I'll put two here and a couple more in another reply. 
 

9 hours ago, Hector said:

Not a perfect solution, being modern reproductions, but I noticed Nosyudo of Gifu manufacture fittings for both yari and naginata (on page 42).

 

https://nosyudo.jp/catalogs/EnglishCatalog2025.pdf

 

 

 

Oh that's a wonderful find! Thank you ever so much. 

Still, as you say "if you could source an antique set of the same...' Does anyone know how to do that? I don't see many coming onto the market, which as so many of your know is dominated by sword fittings, but it may well be that I'm simply not looking in the right places. I've seen a tiny number of buyee, though if they are real or reproduction it is hard to tell. 

 

2 hours ago, John C said:

 

p.s. For all interested, this is from Japanese Polearms available for free on the Internet Archive.

Also a wonderful find! Would you be so good as to provide the link? I fear that "Japanese polearms' by itself would be a search term with too many results to sort though. 

Also, thank you Piers! You bring up the very important distinction between spears and pikes.... and that of course touches in issues of vocabulary and translations.... One of my own personal pet peeves is how anything that cuts will often be translated as 'halberd' even when the item is not at all a halberd.... 

Personally I'd never call a pike a spear, or a naginata a halberd. I could see calling a naginata a glaive, but not a halberd. It might be the Japanese don't make a distinction between a spear and a pike in their language... I've noted that the Tanto is usually classed (or so it seems) as a very short sword as opposed to a knife or dagger, and even the kogatana utility knife sometimes seems to be so classified! 

[John C]

3 hours ago, GreyVR said:

Would you be so good as to provide the link?

It actually only brings up 4 results.

Japanese Polearms, by Ronald M. Knudson.

https://archive.org/details/bwb_S0-EKD-837/page/n7/mode/2up

 

John C.