**UPDATED WITH NEW PICS identify my first wakizashi*UPDATE**

[jason_mazzy]

It does. But the study I was doing said that would be normal for an un cut blade during those times.

[Veli]

Believe the experienced guys, not me

 

Why did I suggest that the blade may be O-suriage?

 

1) The nakago shape follows closely the extended geometry of the blade, taking into account the re-shaping.

2) The munemachi is low

3) The ha-machi is low, which could also mean that the blade has been polished down. In this case you should see a difference in thickness between the motokasane and the thickest part of the nakago: the nakago should be more than 1 mm thicker than the blade above the hamachi if the blade is not O-suriage.

4) The nakago patina looks kind of fresh.

5) There are hakobore below the hamachi. Thus the blade must be at least machi okuri. Yet only one mekugi-ana. Edit: What seemed hakobore was only a scanning artefact

6) The yakiba as well as the muneyaki seem to extend well into the nakago

7) The blade shape "just looks like" a part of a longer blade

 

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong for a wakizashi being a cut-down katana. The original shape is lost, but on the other hand the original workmanship may be better.

 

Just my personal unlearned opinions, nothing more!

 

I like this blade!

 

BR, Veli

[Jean]

Just a thought :

 

It is a good blade and if it is O suriage from katana somebody has taken the pain to reshape a good nakago jiri which is not so frequent. How are the yasurime?

[jason_mazzy]

Veli thank you for that reply. The extended reply allows me to learn by taking what you say and letting me look at the blade and study it. That was really what i needed to help further my understanding. Thank you very very much.

[jason_mazzy]

Just a thought :

 

It is a good blade and if it is O suriage from katana somebody has taken the pain to reshape a good nakago jiri which is not so frequent. How are the yasurime?

 

YASURIME - 鑢目- file marks on nakago

 

I would say Kiri

[jason_mazzy]

So lets say this is definately cut down, do you believe that would have made this blade when full katana a Saki-Zori instead?

 

 

I ask because then with this being cut down, all my measurements really don't play the same issue in my attribution of period or school, and instead need to focus on what it was like as a whole.

 

Edit: added original sellers pics

[Lee Bray]

So lets say this is definately cut down...

 

I wouldn't be making that call just yet based on one opinion. No disrespect intended, Veli.

If you're going by vote, I'll go for not cut down.

 

Your own words, "I really feel this has never been cut down."

You've got it in hand, you're in the best position to tell.

Work on the details with the idea that the nakago is untouched with the knowledge that you may have to scrap all that if it is o-suriage.

That's part of the fun and learning experience. You don't always have to be right to learn.

 

Until you've got some experience and seen more blades in hand, you'll be hard pressed to tell if it is cut down or not, because if it is cut down, the smith has taken a good deal of effort refinishing the nakago.

[Brian]

I don't see much to convince me it is cut down. I would say ubu.

 

Brian

[jason_mazzy]

I was not saying it is cut down, asked hypothetically.... "lets say it def was cut down" I was not making the statement that i believed it was. Lost in internet translation I am sure.

 

 

edit: grammar

[Veli]

No personal feelings involved :D ! I just wanted to add a different view into the discussion, since the analysis takes a totally different route depending whether the blade is ubu or not.

 

Jason, I have a few clarifying questions:

 

Your first pictures show a hakobore or two below the hamachi, but it is not visible in the seller pictures. Is it there or was it a scanning artefact?

 

The oroshi seems very very gentle since the mune is not visible in any of the pictures. Can you describe the angle more accurately?

 

How about the thickness difference between the nakago and the blade above the hamachi? How much is it? This is an important question, since (in my opinion) the blade is either cut down or polished down. I cannot believe that the original hamachi looked anything like the present one.

 

I am looking forward to receiving more comments to my speculative arguments!

 

BR, Veli

[jason_mazzy]

1: Your first pictures show a hakobore or two below the hamachi, but it is not visible in the seller pictures. Is it there or was it a scanning artefact?

 

2: The oroshi seems very very gentle since the mune is not visible in any of the pictures. Can you describe the angle more accurately?

 

3: How about the thickness difference between the nakago and the blade above the hamachi? How much is it?

 

 

BR, Veli

 

1: This blade is 99.9% chip free. what appears to be chips are dark spots directly at the ha so the scanned pics make them look like chips.

 

2: mune: iori-mune, oroshi: gentle A shallow triangle gentle yet strong.

 

3: Very miniscule if any. I see no differance.

 

 

 

edit: All edits pertain to copy and paste to best display questions and answers

[Veli]

I edited the hakobore comment out of my original list of arguments.

 

BR, Veli

[jason_mazzy]

Any experts in the field of muneyaki here? I would like to maybe tackle that section a little bit.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

I am with Brian on this one, Ubu nakago (which is poorly done).

[jason_mazzy]

Hi,

 

I am with Brian on this one, Ubu nakago (which is poorly done).

 

 

Explain poorly done

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

have a look at the nakago shinogi. A french scholar always says a good blade is well mad from the kissaki tip to the tip of the nakagojiri

[jason_mazzy]

What is poor about its shinogi?

[Lee Bray]

A good shinogi would be a perfect ridge line, whether curved or straight.

The one pictured dips and rises.

[jason_mazzy]

Thank you for your reply, but i do not understand what you mean. Can you show me where you see this up and down action on the pictures? I see none when holding the blade, I may not know what to look for. Thank you for your time.

[Lee Bray]

The seller pictures that you posted last show the shinogi undulating.

It maybe just the pictures but it seems apparent on both sides.

[jason_mazzy]

Very interesting, I will have to pull it out tomorrow and look more carefully.

[Lee Bray]

You see what I mean?

 

It suggests that the nakago is an actual nakago shaped by the smith. Some smiths would not put the same effort into their nakago as they did the blade. Hence an undulating shinogi.

If the sword were shortened, the shinogi of the nakago would probably be a smooth line, based on the fact that the shinogi of the blade is smooth.

 

However, that theory gets wobbly if there is any work done to the nakago after shortening as the work can affect the shinogi.

Considering the yasurime and the nakago jiri on your blade must have been worked after shortening(if it was), that means the shinogi could be affected.

 

Fun, hey?

 

I still think your nakago is ubu, though.