Sayagaki process

klee · April 16

Good afternoon

I know some dealers can offer to submit blades to Tanobe Sensei for a sayagaki but how does the process go from there ?

I am new to the sayagaki world so this would be a 1st.

A blade I am currently considering with a dealer did confirm that ordering a sayagaki from Tanobe sensei is possible. The price quoted was reasonable and in line with what I ve read.

I know Tanobe Sensei wont just sign anything for a price so wouldnt the dealer confirm with him 1st ? I assume there has to be a good standing relationship between Tanobe Sensei and the dealer for them to offer this.

Or does the dealer have a pretty good idea that he will do a sayagaki depending on the blade discussed ?

And what is a general time frame for a sayagaki ?

Thank you Kindly

-Kevin

Mushin · April 16

The general rule of thumb that I have always heard is that Tanobe will not do a sayagaki for a blade that is not worthy of TokuHo papers. I have also heard that he has refused on occasion for other reasons such as thinking that a signature might need more research. But it works pretty much as you laid out: An agent/dealer/friend brings the sword to him. They sometimes discuss it, and he agrees or not to do the sayagaki. Then some time passes and you get word it's done. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes weeks pass. I have heard that he has been backed up as of late w/requests and that he is starting to take less, but if the sword is a great one or by a top maker, he usually agrees. Some dealers have better relations with him than others and yes, they should know what he will take on and what he is likely to refuse. Good luck!

klee · April 16

Thank you @Mushin 🙏🙏🙏

This is very helpful

Lewis B · April 16

1 hour ago, Mushin said:

The general rule of thumb that I have always heard is that Tanobe will not do a sayagaki for a blade that is not worthy of TokuHo papers. I have also heard that he has refused on occasion for other reasons such as thinking that a signature might need more research. But it works pretty much as you laid out: An agent/dealer/friend brings the sword to him. They sometimes discuss it, and he agrees or not to do the sayagaki. Then some time passes and you get word it's done. Sometimes it's fast, sometimes weeks pass. I have heard that he has been backed up as of late w/request and that he

is starting to take less, but if the sword is a great one or by a top maker, he usually agrees. Some dealers have better relations with him than others and yes, they should know what he will take on and what he is likely to refuse. Good luck!

Pretty much sums up my recent experience. Blade was purchased from Choshuya and they organised delivery and retrieval after getting Tanobe's :thumbsup: Sword was returned in less than a week. I've heard it said that the length of the Sayagaki is directly proportional to his interest in the blade, but I have my doubts about that urban legend. I think it's more to do with time he has available with other competing responsibilities. Since retiring the sayagaki seem to have gotten longer :dunno:

Hokke · April 16

2 hours ago, Lewis B said:

I think it's more to do with time he has available with other competing responsibilities. Since retiring the sayagaki seem to have gotten longer

I think it has more to do with what he finds to be notable about the blade. If the work is exceptional or remarkable, his description will be written accordingly.

atm · April 16

@Lewis B @Hokke I think you are both right. I once asked someone close to Tanobe sensei why we see different lengths of sayagaki and why he sometimes uses specific terms. The answer I got was to not read too much into it--it depends on many things, including how much time he has, how poetic he is feeling in the moment, and his feelings about the blade, among others.

His earlier sayagaki are briefer and more structured in their content and in his calligraphy. His later sayagaki are often more fluid in calligraphy and can be quite lengthy, yet the description typically follows a pattern.

Sukaira · April 17

I have had 6 sayagaki done by Tanobe recently and personally I love the new style. I have heard it is not as popular in some Japanese circles because it can be such a wall of text, but I find it quite aesthetically pleasing. I have a Juyo that is in the old structured style though. Pretty much what everyone has said, the dealers have relationships with him and he either agrees or disagrees and takes between 1-4 weeks in my experience.

I am quite curious about the sayagaki length as there actually might be a bit more to it than just being a myth. I think since he dropped (at least to my knowledge) the chinchin chocho that people were using as Juyo proxy, they might be looking for another signal and using the extended sayagaki as one. I will say that the (katana length for stable comparison) sayagaki where he uses the back of the saya to put the blade length and his signature feels like it appears more on Juyo blades or Saijo Saku Tokubetsu Hozon than the shorter one sided sayagaki. Then again, it could just be that is how much he has to say about it and that's it. Here is a front side only sayagaki that is a $250,000 USD Yukimitsu Juyo: https://www.mandarinmansion.com/item/juyo-soshu-yukimitsu?__cf_chl_tk=nYvA6BSWIdJBHKc1Dzq1KFeZFonpiwyFO.csQCc9_Yg-1776104404-1.0.1.1-0SCUfTzTDWaj3zxmuJ4Ey7qagS1KzkK3jTSba5dWn78

Another good sign (and maybe the best) at least in my opinion is the use of elevating language and hataraki specific enumerations in the sayagaki. Things like "exceptional" "vivid nioiguchi" "striking" "precious and rare" "masterpiece" "best work of this smith" etc.

Lewis B · April 17

The sayagaki Tanobe wrote in 2024 was a long one with blade length, date and Kao written on the reverse side. Like you say the reader will know in the subtlety of the writing whether it's a blade he likes. This is what he wrote for the Senjuin blade with Soshu and Yamato features.

"This blade exhibits a graceful and slender form with a small kissaki (ko-kissaki). The grain (hada) is a flowing itame that becomes more pronounced near the temper line (hamon). It is richly covered in thick ji-nie (crystalline particles) and displays distinct chikei (dark lines of steel).

The temper line is a suguha (straight) style mixed with small gunome that becomes wildly irregular (midare) in a 'grass' (kusa) pattern. It is brilliantly charged with nie, featuring frequent sunagashi (sand-drift patterns) and kinsuji (golden streaks) intertwined throughout. In several places, yubashiri (spots of concentrated nie) are formed, and the tempering in the point (boshi) transforms into a 'flame' (kaen) pattern.

The workmanship presents a masterful synthesis of the Yamato and Soshu traditions. Historically, there is a strong convention to attribute blades with such exuberant irregularity—rarely seen in the other four Yamato schools—to the Senjuin lineage. In this regard, the current attribution is entirely appropriate."

I personally prefer the longer script as there is more opportunity to see Tanobe's personality. The shorter ones from the early 2000's are quite matter of fact and here the chin chin cho cho is about the best you'll get in terms of an especially positive opinion. Reminds me of his predecessor Kunzan's sayagaki that were very minimalist. Good thing we have his KantoHibi Sho volumes to study.

Edited April 17 by Lewis B

Sukaira · April 17

"The workmanship presents a masterful synthesis of the Yamato and Soshu traditions."

That is strong wording for sure. Is this Juyo?

Lewis B · April 17

TH currently but I will submit it for Juyo at some point in the future. I think it has a chance at a named attribution.

Nobody · April 18

On 4/17/2026 at 8:45 AM, atm said:

.................................................

His earlier sayagaki are briefer and more structured in their content and in his calligraphy. His later sayagaki are often more fluid in calligraphy and can be quite lengthy, yet the description typically follows a pattern.

That is correct. I had this sayagaki written in October 2000.

The description is simple, and the characters are written in Block script.

atm · Saturday at 10:08 PM

I find it interesting when Tanobe sensei deviates from his normal format. For example, his kao is normally at the end of his commentary. In some cases, his commentary takes up the entire omote of the shirasaya and continues to ura, so his kao is on the ura. On this Yukimitsu sayagaki, it first appears that everything is on the omote since it includes his kao. But the bulk of the commentary is actually on the ura. I suspect he did it this way because the blade and the koshirae are together on the same NBTHK origami, so he used the omote to reference both and then he used the ura to describe the blade.

Lewis B · Saturday at 11:14 PM

On 4/17/2026 at 10:32 PM, Sukaira said:

"The workmanship presents a masterful synthesis of the Yamato and Soshu traditions."

That is strong wording for sure. Is this Juyo?

The sword was part of the Tsukamoto Sozan museum collection and had an historical attribution to Go. The excerpt you highlighted gives some credence to that possibility. The more I study the few early Go pieces with Yamato (Senjuin) and Soshu influence, the more I think it has a chance.

Edited Saturday at 11:18 PM by Lewis B

klee · Sunday at 11:10 PM

And is sayagaki ever forged/faked ?

I ve never personally came accross one but like all things valuable id assume there have been attempts

nulldevice · Monday at 12:07 AM

54 minutes ago, klee said:

And is sayagaki ever forged/faked ?

I ve never personally came accross one but like all things valuable id assume there have been attempts

Kanzan sayagaki were often faked and he even commented on such in one of his lectures.

Sesko - Fake Kanzan Sayagaki