Yari identification?

[StephenJN]

[ROKUJURO]

Stephen,

welcome to the NMB forum!

The MEI is best posted in the TRANSLATION section. 

What I can see is a SANKAKU YARI in very corroded condition. It is red rust which should be removed by a traditionally trained polisher (TOGISHI). In Australia, you could check with Andrew Ickeringill for possibilities and costs.

In the meantime, you could apply oil with low viscosity to slow down the corrosion.  

[StephenJN]

16 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Stephen,

welcome to the NMB forum!

The MEI is best posted in the TRANSLATION section. 

What I can see is a SANKAKU YARI in very corroded condition. It is red rust which should be removed by a traditionally trained polisher (TOGISHI). In Australia, you could check with Andrew Ickeringill for possibilities and costs.

In the meantime, you could apply oil with low viscosity to slow down the corrosion.  

Thank you Rokujuro,

It is not an object I own, but one for sale. (In Japan)
I find it interesting but lack the knowledge to assess it in any way whatsoever. I am particularly curious regarding the red stripe in the underside "fuller"?
Apologies in advance for my ignorance.

[ROKUJURO]

The red lacquer in the BOHI (fuller) is not rare. It was often done on YARI for different reasons, one of them being to conceal forging flaws.

Otherwise, your YARI seems to be signed HEIANJO (old name for KYOTO) no JU.....It could well be from the early EDO period, but age is not as important as quality and condition.

Generally, a signature is not always reliable to say something about a blade. In your case, you don't know what happened to the blade as the rust is concealing all features it might have. It could even have been in a fire which would make it almost worthless. 

[StephenJN]

23 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

The red lacquer in the BOHI (fuller) is not rare. It was often done on YARI for different reasons, one of them being to conceal forging flaws.

Otherwise, your YARI seems to be signed HEIANJO (old name for KYOTO) no JU.....It could well be from the early EDO period, but age is not as important as quality and condition.

Generally, a signature is not always reliable to say something about a blade. In your case, you don't know what happened to the blade as the rust is concealing all features it might have. It could even have been in a fire which would make it almost worthless. 

Thank you for your knowledge Rokujuro - 

Seems the lacquer holds on well despite potential age. They ask $275 US, a small amount hence my curiousity I guess.

It is sad to me that history can have such little monetary value at times, though I understand that items in poor condition are what they are. (And a fire sale indeed perhaps!)
 

[John C]

1 hour ago, StephenJN said:

Seems the lacquer holds on well despite potential age.

Stephen:

As Jean noted, the use of "lacquer" is quite common. I put lacquer in quotes because it is not lacquer in the modern sense. It is urushi, which is a hardened sap from the sumac tree rather than a product of the lac beetle. Under the right conditions, it dries to a hard plastic-like consistency, which is quite robust. Helmets and armor were coated with it for strength. As to the color, traditionally it came in red, black, and brown so these are the most commonly seen. Now, it comes in a variety of colors.

 

John C.

[ROKUJURO]

Stephen,

there are indeed historically important items of great age in this field which are valuable even if their respective condition is not good. But these are blades that are very rare and really very (800 + years) old. In these cases, condition issues can play a minor role.

[Bugyotsuji]

平安城住下坂

Heian Jo Jū Shimosaka

 

“Made by a Shimosaka smith living in the Kyoto area”

 

The Shimosaka were well-known makers of Yari.

[StephenJN]

Thank you to everyone for your input.

Having done a little more internet sleuthing, I have found one can purchase Yari in Japan with Hozon in polished condition for as little as ¥132 000. 
Of course, one can also spend significantly more.

I have noticed before in woodworking forums, people have discussed wanting to use urushi for a project - the advice has generally been not to, not due to any issues with finish or quality, but merely due to the time, complexity of process, and the unfriendly nature of urushiol.
Clearly lasts well though.

Again, thanks to you all.

[Bugyotsuji]

Stephen, when you say 'yari' in Japan with Hozon above, are you referring to the whole thing with pole (a nightmare to ship), or just the blade and nakago?

[StephenJN]

Just the blade and nakago - Toshin Co., Ltd. / Mumei (Shimosaka) - 6-088

I found the link on NihontoWatch website and have no idea on the veracity of listing.

My apologies to all also - I have only realised since posting that this is not the right place to list this kind of enquiry.

Regards - Steve.

[StephenJN]

To clarify also, not wishing to give the wrong impression.

I am a boilermaker of rather modest means at the end of my career - old enough to have missed out on the serious coin now inherent in the trades industry in my country. 
(Some trades weren't well paid in the past where i live, how times change.)

I'm always learning, but my knowledge on weapons and armour of the past has been largely eurocentric.
I appreciate the craft and understand the labour and effort involved in making anything in steel, which (along with my wallet) hopefully explains my interest in things that others may consider sub-par or sub-optimal.
I'm even starting to become familiar with some of the terms..

Regards, Steve.


 

[eternal_newbie]

53 minutes ago, StephenJN said:

I found the link on NihontoWatch website and have no idea on the veracity of listing.

 

To your question on veracity - the description appears to be *mostly* accurate; the item in question is a Shimosaka school yari, authenticated by an NBTHK Hozon token paper, with a blade measuring 26.36cm and a nakago (tang) measuring 34.7cm.

 

What should be noted is that the NBTHK paper does not specify an era - in other words, the determination that the blade dates from the late Muromachi to early Edo period is the opinion of the dealer, not the NBTHK.

[Shugyosha]

The usual indicator of age is the length of the kerakubi (the part between the blade and the tang). I would say this is a long kerakubi (the blade in the OP's and Jean's example look short) and this points to it being being Muromachi or perhaps on the cusp so I don't think the description is that far out. Shorter kerakubi normally indicates an Edo period blade.

Edited Monday at 03:14 PM by Shugyosha

[Geraint]

Fully accepting your closing phrase John but I think it is kerakubi.

 

All the best.

[Shugyosha]

Hi Geraint,

Sorry, now corrected - thank you!

[John C]

9 hours ago, StephenJN said:

boilermaker

 Brings back memories - all of my grand-uncles were boilermakers. Endless stories...most of which are R rated.

 

John C.